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If you earth the orange wire it should operate the relay with the key in the start position... ( well you have 12v on the green so an earth on the orange will give you 12v across the relay coil. KISS
Yes. I believe it will... It's been a long time since. Basically, if my memory serves me correctly, if I short a lead from the orange wire to earth, the relay will trigger and the starter will turn - when everything is hooked up.
Did I mention that my memory isn't as good as it used to be?
Wait, help me out,,, who are you again and WHAT were we talking about, lol... I hear ya! Like,,,,
It's 90+ degrees here today. There was a time,,, but there is NO WAY that I will be on the blacktop messing around with no cars today. It literally hurts me for days to,,,
WTF what does that mean ? If you dont get your act together and talk sense people will ignore your future posts ...
Are you telling us it cranks with the orange earthed ? If it does what is your problem ?
Last edited by Pistnbroke; 05-31-2022 at 03:43 PM.
WTF what does that mean ? If you dont get your act together and talk sense people will ignore your future posts ...
Are you telling us it cranks with the orange earthed ? If it does what is your problem ?
That means that the relay and starter works just fine, as stated early in this thread.
The problem is and has "always" been that he do not get the earth / ground signal from the ignition switch through BPM and ECM to the starter relay.
That means that the relay and starter works just fine, as stated early in this thread.
The problem is and has "always" been that he do not get the earth / ground signal from the ignition switch through BPM and ECM to the starter relay.
Yes, that... Thanks NorXKR...
Piston Man,,, you gots ta relax...
The broke piston,,, is going to be your 💜
My understanding was that when the ign switch was in start and only when in start there was 12v on the green. At other times it was 0v . If that is the case an earth on the orange will restore function.
My understanding was that when the ign switch was in start and only when in start there was 12v on the green. At other times it was 0v . If that is the case an earth on the orange will restore function.
yes, that's the mission... and to have it EARTHED properly as a result of BPM, ECM and key switch all talking nicely - starting up the car as designed.
as it is now, key turn to start does NOT provide a ground path to the relay to engage the starter... trying to figure out why that is.
Sorry dont get this..why dont you just put a wire from the orange to earth? These are old cars and if the output transistor which should put the orange to earth is bust you will never get it to work.
I think the earth for the relay is only available if the engine is not running ie earth connection is not present to prevent the starter from being operated when the engine is running
Last edited by Pistnbroke; 06-01-2022 at 05:52 AM.
So that takes us right back to the Not In Park switch - if it isn't passing/disconnecting a ground to the BPM the car won't crank. You have kind of eliminated everything else as it will start if you ground the orange wire, so you know the Key Transponder Module is working (fuel pump is running), you know the Transmission Control Module is saying its ok to crank as there is positive on the green wire.
So that takes us right back to the Not In Park switch - if it isn't passing/disconnecting a ground to the BPM the car won't crank. You have kind of eliminated everything else as it will start if you ground the orange wire, so you know the Key Transponder Module is working (fuel pump is running), you know the Transmission Control Module is saying its ok to crank as there is positive on the green wire.
Yes. I drove the car to the beach this weekend....
I want to be clear. And this is NOT the way I start the car or deal with this no start situation now...today. Today I have a remote start trigger (see photo) wired into the cabin that I use. I get in, insert key and turn to "run", squeeze the trigger and I am on the road.
If the key is in the run position and I ground the ORANGE wire coming off RELAY,,, the relay will operate, make it's contact, and send the signal to the starter to turn over/crank and the car will fire right up and run. That is NOT the way that I have been operating the vehicle. The last time I did this test was in the late summer early fall last year.
In my mind ALL it proves is that the relay is good and that the relay is not getting a signal as needed from the ECM/BPM or the ignition key switch itself, maybe, to fire the relay.
Still got more digging to do. Tracing the path of the Green and Orange wire off the ignition switch if my memory serves, following it's path through different connectors and modules under the dash... Fun fun fun, 😂
remote trigger to WG wires and BW wires in RH enclosure under hood.
But still, with a little poking and prodding today, I can't say that I am much clearer on what's going on. I think the problem may be in the ECM? Although the switch is a mess, tests PROVED(?) that the switch was, is, functioning? I just don't know.
There is a lot of info to share, I need to start writing things down while doing stuff, I think...
It NEVER ceases to amaze me ALL that goes into the works of one of these cars. It's pretty amazing that it all works, when it works...
I have 12v at the GO wire at the ignition switch with the key in the RUN position (actually until the plug for the ignition switch,,, the colors don't match what is described in the ED. It's actually RW).
Anyways, when I turn the key to crank, voltage drops to ZERO until I release the sprung key - returns to 12v. Seems good.
On GO wire I have 12v all the way over to connector EM1-15, the junction between the BPM and the ECM. When I measure V there, V is 12v with key at run, and drops from 12v to ZERO at CRANK turn and back to 12v with release of the sprung key. Seems good.
I was not able to get a measurement where the GO wire goes INTO the BPM from the ignition switch GO wire (didn't want to take apart that side of the dash today). I'm assuming it's 12v just like at the ignition plug FC4-1...? I also did not get a reading on the OUT of the BPM, but I assume it's what I get on both sides of EM1-15 (one from BPM, one to ECM)...
Basically it's 12v from the back of the ignition switch, to the ignition switch plug, onto the BPM (I assume),,, out of the BPM (I assume), into EM1-15,,, out of EM1-15,,, and onto the ECM... Unless it's not making it to the ECM, which I will check... I think it's safe to assume it makes it,,, but I MUST and will check right up to the ECM. It started raining here and I packed up.
Basically, it's 12v that will drop to zero anywhere along the path that is in the photo provided by NorXKR...
I got continuity between the GO wire at the ignition all the way over to EM1-15. Which is between the BPM and the ECM. Strange things happened when testing for continuity. With the DMM in ohms, in the TONE setting, I got the tone for continuity, but I also got a reaction from the car and instrument panel. Headlights warning and a tone like the lights were left on. I have NO idea what that means.
Another strange thing. UNLIKE my XK8 (as I pointed out before) when I turn the key to CRANK, the entire dash goes COMPLETELY dead. That must mean something??? So from this I was thinking (which usually spells trouble) that MAYBE the contacts in the switch itself are so fried that major systems (BPM included) shuts down at the key to crank moment. In the switch, and in the ED, it is clear that the portion of the switch at iii is supposed to REMAIN in contact providing ground to all systems at crank - but with the damage to the switch,,, maybe many systems of the car are NOT getting power (ground actually) at crank - power is interrupted at that critical moment, then power (good ground is restored) when the sprung key returns to iii position...? It's a theory and I hope I described that well/correctly.
Don't hate me. See photos. I found a LOT of evidence of water intrusion at the ignition switch. I took the ignition switch in the house and opened it. I don't think it would be worth reusing IF I could get it back together. After a nights rest, honestly, I believe I could put it back together.
One spring is so rust damaged it can't be functioning. Anyways, a picture is worth 1000 words. Also, there was a chunk of copper plate (very small) loose in the plastic switch housing (see photo). But I could determine where it came from.
ENCOURAGEMENT!!!
Although I am NOT out of the woods.
The saying "keeps ya up at night" is a real thing.
I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep with the damn question of the ignition switch and whether or not I'd be able to get it back together - at least until the "new" switch arrived. So I put on my watch makers hat and sat at my inadequate electrical fiasco work station cleaned things up and put it back together... Lol, which STILL left me unable to sleep, cuz now I wanted to TEST it. It was pouring, POURING, last night in NYC, so it was too little sleep for me, lol.
Anyways, went out this morning and put the key in the ignition (exciter ring needs to read the chip),,, took my big flat blade screwdriver and inserted it into the key slot in the ignition switch,,,, and BAM!!!,,, when I turned the key to CRANK, dash stayed fully powered up! GOOD! But that doesn't mean I'm out of the woods!?
When I go home I'll wire in the relay socket,,, install a relay and see what I GOT! I think I'm going to be pleasantly surprised! We shall see...
I know y'all think I'm crazy (for many reasons) for having done all this WITHOUT a relay in place, but if you're ever in the situation I am (I hope not) you'll see why. It's just easier without. In a few ways.
Three of my four cars (and a motorcycle) are in various states of REPAIR, and I can only drive the one. Someone SLAP me and call me silly...
There is a fine line between HOBBY and mental illness, 😂
The "new" springs BTW came from a big lighter (one that was OUT of gas of course, lol)... Perfect perfect fit!
The HARDEST part was getting the small plastic shaft that senses whether or not the key is inserted in to the key tumbler (forgotten in). The spring and the shaft are held in place by the tiniest plastic cuff... The cuff SPLIT on reassembly. Shaft and spring can't be secured in place.. As it is now the car will always thing that I forgot my key in the ignition. Can't be good.
And I feel like a dumb ***.
But I never would have guessed water could have collected that way in a thing that is almost completely open to the air...
I'm happy, but hang my head!
It was as simple as a crusty and rusty ignition switch!
I now can start the car with the key, an everythin!
Well ain't that,,,, normal, 😂
You guys are the best!
PM me an address, and I'll have a pizza delivered to ya!
Sike!
05-31-2022, 09:00 AM
