2nd tensions DIY instruction "HOW TO"
#41
10-27-2010, 08:47 AM
Thanks for the photo and the instructions. Instead of just replacing the secondary tensioners, should i replace all of them along with timing chains? I found a writeup on completing the whole procedure, but wasn't sure if it was necessary. How much more is it and where can i find a great deal on parts? I can get deals on my Land Rover parts everywhere, but jags are a different story.
Basically, is it better to just do the secondary or all the tensioners? Thanks for the assistance.
Ryan.
Basically, is it better to just do the secondary or all the tensioners? Thanks for the assistance.
Ryan.
#42
10-27-2010, 09:01 AM
Veteran member
Ryan, as XKracer has mentioned, though they may get some wear (or even crack as he has seen) the secondary tensioners are the most problematic and in my opinion the critical to get replaced. Being on these forums for several years now, I haven't heard of a primary tensioner failure. Now, I can't even count the engine failures due to secondary tensioner contributions. I hear the primaries are more complicated too, I suppose its whatever you feel confident undertaking.
#43
10-28-2010, 05:01 PM
#44
10-28-2010, 05:16 PM
Veteran Member
The Jaguar 4.0L and the Lincoln LS 3.9L and the Thunderbird 3.9L engines were effectively the same engines up until '03. Parts for the Lincoln and Thunderbird are significantly less and come in FoMoCo boxes that say 'Jag' on them. FelPro has gaskets for the LS/Thunderbird for a third of any Jaguar source.
Search 'Lincoln LS' for a list of parts numbers.
Search 'Lincoln LS' for a list of parts numbers.
Limited Access!
#46
11-04-2010, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
Attached is a write-up on the zip-tie method. Also attached is a photo of the secondary tensioner. The lower sprocket (at the bottom of the photo, in the foreground) is the exhaust cam sprocket. Simply zip-tie the chain to a hole in the exhaust cam sprocket per the instructions.
PS How do you like the Mina Exhaust, Nameless Perf Cats etc? I'm thinking of doing the same down the road to my 2000 XKR.
#47
11-04-2010, 08:13 PM
Veteran Member
Fla Steve-
You need 10 posts under your belt for file access. Looks like you are there now, so I am sure one of our moderators will grant you access if they have not already.
Here is my review of the Mina exhaust:
Overall I am quite happy with the product. Fit and finish is very good, and the sound really makes these cars sound a lot sportier, without being obnoxiously loud. It adds a lot to the experience of driving these cars for me. I also like the look of the large pollished ovals.
I got a small mileage boost (1/2 -1 mpg) and the car feeling a bit peppier, but nothing dramatic. If you look under the car, the original exhaust is haevily constricted through multiple bands and compressed areas, and these completely resolve that issue and removed two of the five silencers.
The only very minor issues is that somewhat light duty hose clamps are provided for attachment to the stock exhausts, whereas the other muffler clamps provided are very heavy duty. (they are all staniless, BTW). Just do not overtorque these...I had no actual problem and they seem to get the job done. The other issue is that Mina recommends the pipes be mounted tight up against the 'X" reinforcements in the rear (for maximum clearance). It seems kind of unusual that the pipe actually contacts the chassis in this way, and I have heard reports of vibration if these are not mounted tight to the chassis. Again, I had no actual vibration problem, and they can be tightened up against the chassis by bending the hangers slightly if necessary or by insulating the 'X' reinforcement in the contact area with a short length of 3/4" heater hose. Also no instructions are provided, so talk to Chris at Mina if you need to, or I can help you too.
Nameless Cats:
There are a couple of threads on the forum you can search for regarding the high flow cats. In short, the quality, fit and finish on these was superb, and they definitely are high flow (you can see daylight throught the element). Dyno results done by one member showed an 11 RWHP gain.
The combination of these two mods still offers a fairly quiet cruising experience, only very minor droning, but some serious roar when the throttle is goosed mid-hard. With these mods, the supercharger whine is effectively drowned out.
You need 10 posts under your belt for file access. Looks like you are there now, so I am sure one of our moderators will grant you access if they have not already.
Here is my review of the Mina exhaust:
Overall I am quite happy with the product. Fit and finish is very good, and the sound really makes these cars sound a lot sportier, without being obnoxiously loud. It adds a lot to the experience of driving these cars for me. I also like the look of the large pollished ovals.
I got a small mileage boost (1/2 -1 mpg) and the car feeling a bit peppier, but nothing dramatic. If you look under the car, the original exhaust is haevily constricted through multiple bands and compressed areas, and these completely resolve that issue and removed two of the five silencers.
The only very minor issues is that somewhat light duty hose clamps are provided for attachment to the stock exhausts, whereas the other muffler clamps provided are very heavy duty. (they are all staniless, BTW). Just do not overtorque these...I had no actual problem and they seem to get the job done. The other issue is that Mina recommends the pipes be mounted tight up against the 'X" reinforcements in the rear (for maximum clearance). It seems kind of unusual that the pipe actually contacts the chassis in this way, and I have heard reports of vibration if these are not mounted tight to the chassis. Again, I had no actual vibration problem, and they can be tightened up against the chassis by bending the hangers slightly if necessary or by insulating the 'X' reinforcement in the contact area with a short length of 3/4" heater hose. Also no instructions are provided, so talk to Chris at Mina if you need to, or I can help you too.
Nameless Cats:
There are a couple of threads on the forum you can search for regarding the high flow cats. In short, the quality, fit and finish on these was superb, and they definitely are high flow (you can see daylight throught the element). Dyno results done by one member showed an 11 RWHP gain.
The combination of these two mods still offers a fairly quiet cruising experience, only very minor droning, but some serious roar when the throttle is goosed mid-hard. With these mods, the supercharger whine is effectively drowned out.
#48
11-04-2010, 08:15 PM
Veteran Member
#49
11-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Senior Member
Just thought I would relay more on tensioners. I dismantled my 2000 XKR with 67,000 miles. I posed a question to this forum about whether I should do only the secondary tensioners or the whole job; chains, guides, primary tensioners etc. Well I chose to do it all. The secondary tensioners were the original red ones; both had a 3/4" crack, and one had worn the guide severally. Additionally, both primary slack guides (the ones pushed on by the primary tensioners) were cracked pretty badly. I am so glad I chose to do it all!. Now I have metal tensioners, new chains and guides and peace of mind. P.S. I bought the tools and did the job with 2 cam locking bars. When you buy the tool kit from Motorcars LTD, you only get one cam locking bar, so I bought an additional one. It was a pretty big investment in tools! ($285 Timing Tools + $125 add'l bar). The job is involved but not rocket science. I am willing to rent them for a small fee to recoup some of my cost. Still I saved a bunch by DITY. P.S. Motorcars LTD wants $125 to rent the timing tools but you only get one lock bar, so you have to pay extra for the second one. Contact me at ssmoleroff@aol.com if you need to use them.
#50
11-05-2010, 08:44 PM
Senior Member
Thankyou so much for that very good description.
Fla Steve-
You need 10 posts under your belt for file access. Looks like you are there now, so I am sure one of our moderators will grant you access if they have not already.
Here is my review of the Mina exhaust:
Overall I am quite happy with the product. Fit and finish is very good, and the sound really makes these cars sound a lot sportier, without being obnoxiously loud. It adds a lot to the experience of driving these cars for me. I also like the look of the large pollished ovals.
I got a small mileage boost (1/2 -1 mpg) and the car feeling a bit peppier, but nothing dramatic. If you look under the car, the original exhaust is haevily constricted through multiple bands and compressed areas, and these completely resolve that issue and removed two of the five silencers.
The only very minor issues is that somewhat light duty hose clamps are provided for attachment to the stock exhausts, whereas the other muffler clamps provided are very heavy duty. (they are all staniless, BTW). Just do not overtorque these...I had no actual problem and they seem to get the job done. The other issue is that Mina recommends the pipes be mounted tight up against the 'X" reinforcements in the rear (for maximum clearance). It seems kind of unusual that the pipe actually contacts the chassis in this way, and I have heard reports of vibration if these are not mounted tight to the chassis. Again, I had no actual vibration problem, and they can be tightened up against the chassis by bending the hangers slightly if necessary or by insulating the 'X' reinforcement in the contact area with a short length of 3/4" heater hose. Also no instructions are provided, so talk to Chris at Mina if you need to, or I can help you too.
Nameless Cats:
There are a couple of threads on the forum you can search for regarding the high flow cats. In short, the quality, fit and finish on these was superb, and they definitely are high flow (you can see daylight throught the element). Dyno results done by one member showed an 11 RWHP gain.
The combination of these two mods still offers a fairly quiet cruising experience, only very minor droning, but some serious roar when the throttle is goosed mid-hard. With these mods, the supercharger whine is effectively drowned out.
You need 10 posts under your belt for file access. Looks like you are there now, so I am sure one of our moderators will grant you access if they have not already.
Here is my review of the Mina exhaust:
Overall I am quite happy with the product. Fit and finish is very good, and the sound really makes these cars sound a lot sportier, without being obnoxiously loud. It adds a lot to the experience of driving these cars for me. I also like the look of the large pollished ovals.
I got a small mileage boost (1/2 -1 mpg) and the car feeling a bit peppier, but nothing dramatic. If you look under the car, the original exhaust is haevily constricted through multiple bands and compressed areas, and these completely resolve that issue and removed two of the five silencers.
The only very minor issues is that somewhat light duty hose clamps are provided for attachment to the stock exhausts, whereas the other muffler clamps provided are very heavy duty. (they are all staniless, BTW). Just do not overtorque these...I had no actual problem and they seem to get the job done. The other issue is that Mina recommends the pipes be mounted tight up against the 'X" reinforcements in the rear (for maximum clearance). It seems kind of unusual that the pipe actually contacts the chassis in this way, and I have heard reports of vibration if these are not mounted tight to the chassis. Again, I had no actual vibration problem, and they can be tightened up against the chassis by bending the hangers slightly if necessary or by insulating the 'X' reinforcement in the contact area with a short length of 3/4" heater hose. Also no instructions are provided, so talk to Chris at Mina if you need to, or I can help you too.
Nameless Cats:
There are a couple of threads on the forum you can search for regarding the high flow cats. In short, the quality, fit and finish on these was superb, and they definitely are high flow (you can see daylight throught the element). Dyno results done by one member showed an 11 RWHP gain.
The combination of these two mods still offers a fairly quiet cruising experience, only very minor droning, but some serious roar when the throttle is goosed mid-hard. With these mods, the supercharger whine is effectively drowned out.
#51
11-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Senior Member
Mina Exhaust
To White XKR, I'm still new at this so I don't know how to send this to you directly. Anyway thanks for that very good description on you exhaust. I guess the most important thing form a performance standpoint is to get the new Cats from Nameless first. Then save for the rest. I'm not sure I like the idea of an "under the axle" system though. This has not caused you any ground clearance issues? Thanks again. P.S. read about my Cam Tensioners I just posted. Replaced them today..will finish putting everything back together this weekend.
#52
11-08-2010, 02:28 PM
Veteran Member
You are welcome. I have not had any ground clearance issues with the Mina. It really is not bad because the low point is near the rear axle.
We should move any further discussion of exhaust mods to another thread before the moderators get annoyed.
We should move any further discussion of exhaust mods to another thread before the moderators get annoyed.
Last edited by WhiteXKR; 11-08-2010 at 02:40 PM.
#53
12-05-2010, 06:08 PM
My 99 XJ8 was not displaying any signs of issue with the 2nd tensioner's. I bought the car with 84K miles on it and have driven it for 3.5K miles. Initially when starting from cold there was a slight rattle lasting les than two seconds and after oil change to Mobil 1 high mileage even that appeared to disappear.
I would however get smell of burning oil and it did appear that it was from valve cover seals. So in order to take care of that I took off the left cover to notice that the car still had the red colored series one tensioner's and that the slider had worn and was totally missing.
I did manage to retrieve couple of pieces that were trapped. The same story with the other side with the exception that three of the spark plug recesses were full of oil, courtesy of very loose center bolts on the cover.
Moral of the story is if you have an older XJ8 or XK8 it is worth checking to see if undated tensioner's have been installed or not and not to rely on any form of sound or rattle alerting you.
I have ordered the replacement tensioner's and will post when I install them.
As to pieces of plastic or whatever material the sliders are made out of I hope they have been buried in the bottom of the sump deep enough not to cause issues, as quiet frankly I do not want to start major disassembly
I would however get smell of burning oil and it did appear that it was from valve cover seals. So in order to take care of that I took off the left cover to notice that the car still had the red colored series one tensioner's and that the slider had worn and was totally missing.
I did manage to retrieve couple of pieces that were trapped. The same story with the other side with the exception that three of the spark plug recesses were full of oil, courtesy of very loose center bolts on the cover.
Moral of the story is if you have an older XJ8 or XK8 it is worth checking to see if undated tensioner's have been installed or not and not to rely on any form of sound or rattle alerting you.
I have ordered the replacement tensioner's and will post when I install them.
As to pieces of plastic or whatever material the sliders are made out of I hope they have been buried in the bottom of the sump deep enough not to cause issues, as quiet frankly I do not want to start major disassembly
Last edited by aregg; 12-11-2010 at 09:44 PM.
#54
12-11-2010, 09:42 PM
While I have not finished the right hand bank I expect the process will go easily tomorrow.
The left hand tensioner which I took out today apart from loosing the plastic slide as reported in the above post also had a major crack so probably a disaster was on the calendar.
The two points that follow do not appear to be covered by previous posts.
1) As stated in earlier posts loosen the camshaft caps gradually and evenly but also make sure that the whole of the camshaft is rising from the bottom carriers. In my case the rear valves were open so they pushed the back of the camshaft up but the front was suck and would not come adrift I had to tighten all the caps back loosen slightly and then lift the front part so it became unseated, then continue.
2) My major problem was that the bolts securing the caps were so tight that a few ended up with rounded heads and could not be removed. When the first one did that I assumed maybe my 8mm socket was worn so I took out the almost brand new Snap-On 8mm that I have but then four other followed the same fate. While my 99 with 87K miles is an old car I have not doubt that these bolts were never disturbed before so it is not a question of someone over tightening them at some time. I did not have a spiral socket of suitable size so after a lot of head scratching I followed the following procedure. Obviously when this happens cutting a slot and trying with a screw driver is a wasted effort and use of the dreaded vise grips is a definite No No. My solution was to take a 13mm nut. drill out half of the threads and placed it on top of the rounded nut and MIG weld it in place. My first two attempts failed as the weld broke. So then I simply cut a groove on the rounded head and welded another nut. The penetrated weld in the groove gave it enough strength to enable me to undo the bolt with a 13 mm socket. I do not think my case is an exception, and I have enough experience not to have caused the issue by mishandling the situation. So to be safe make sure you have a very good 8mm socket and as added insurance an 8mm spiral socket when you tackle this project.
The left hand tensioner which I took out today apart from loosing the plastic slide as reported in the above post also had a major crack so probably a disaster was on the calendar.
The two points that follow do not appear to be covered by previous posts.
1) As stated in earlier posts loosen the camshaft caps gradually and evenly but also make sure that the whole of the camshaft is rising from the bottom carriers. In my case the rear valves were open so they pushed the back of the camshaft up but the front was suck and would not come adrift I had to tighten all the caps back loosen slightly and then lift the front part so it became unseated, then continue.
2) My major problem was that the bolts securing the caps were so tight that a few ended up with rounded heads and could not be removed. When the first one did that I assumed maybe my 8mm socket was worn so I took out the almost brand new Snap-On 8mm that I have but then four other followed the same fate. While my 99 with 87K miles is an old car I have not doubt that these bolts were never disturbed before so it is not a question of someone over tightening them at some time. I did not have a spiral socket of suitable size so after a lot of head scratching I followed the following procedure. Obviously when this happens cutting a slot and trying with a screw driver is a wasted effort and use of the dreaded vise grips is a definite No No. My solution was to take a 13mm nut. drill out half of the threads and placed it on top of the rounded nut and MIG weld it in place. My first two attempts failed as the weld broke. So then I simply cut a groove on the rounded head and welded another nut. The penetrated weld in the groove gave it enough strength to enable me to undo the bolt with a 13 mm socket. I do not think my case is an exception, and I have enough experience not to have caused the issue by mishandling the situation. So to be safe make sure you have a very good 8mm socket and as added insurance an 8mm spiral socket when you tackle this project.
#55
01-04-2011, 12:21 AM
Tensioners replaced
Finally got around to secondary tensioner replacement - 2000 XKR w/30K mi & original red tensioners, each one had 1/4 inch cracks. I used Simon's basic instructions but used John's method of sprocket removal. Tools were rented from Christopher's for $50 - well worth it IMHO, made the job easier and ensured proper timing. I also just moved the coolant reservoir out of the way as opposed to draining and removing as suggested by White XKR. I also used Reverend Sam's Spark Plug replacement video to help me get started. Many thanks to all of you! 
A couple of lessons learned: make sure that ALL of the wiring harnesses are disconnected from the valve covers before loosening the bolts and trying to lift it off - there is a sleeper on the firewall side of the right bank - I thought the ignition coil harness was just routed beside the valve cover. I didn't find out it was attached until trying to remove the cover - when I pulled it off with one hand while holding the cover in the other the resulting jerk sent several bolts flying. Luckily no harm done but I was cussing up a storm. Also, on the left bank, after you remove the nut holding the dipstick tube you have to finesse it out of the sump with GREAT care - you only want to pull it out enough to clear the bolt. Mine was really in there tight and after about 5 minutes of yanking and wiggling with no movement the tube let loose and pulled ALL the way out of the block. This was followed by a lot more cussing as the hole can not be seen nor felt without major disassembly. Luckily I was able to blindly stab it back in place. Lastly, the job is a bit of a back breaker so do yourself a favor and use a jack to raise and lower the car to the best position as you work.
Ken
A couple of lessons learned: make sure that ALL of the wiring harnesses are disconnected from the valve covers before loosening the bolts and trying to lift it off - there is a sleeper on the firewall side of the right bank - I thought the ignition coil harness was just routed beside the valve cover. I didn't find out it was attached until trying to remove the cover - when I pulled it off with one hand while holding the cover in the other the resulting jerk sent several bolts flying. Luckily no harm done but I was cussing up a storm. Also, on the left bank, after you remove the nut holding the dipstick tube you have to finesse it out of the sump with GREAT care - you only want to pull it out enough to clear the bolt. Mine was really in there tight and after about 5 minutes of yanking and wiggling with no movement the tube let loose and pulled ALL the way out of the block. This was followed by a lot more cussing as the hole can not be seen nor felt without major disassembly. Luckily I was able to blindly stab it back in place. Lastly, the job is a bit of a back breaker so do yourself a favor and use a jack to raise and lower the car to the best position as you work.
Ken
#56
01-30-2011, 10:29 AM
Thank you for these part numbers. Can anyone verify they will also fit a '99 XK8 4.0L Manuf 4/99? Great prices, but I'm not sure if they are compatible with my ride. I have to do the valve gaskets anyway, so if I discover the old tensioners in there, I want to have the new ones to put in while I have the valve cover off.
For those wishing to save a few dollars on the 4.0 secondary tensioner upgrade I thought I would add to this thread the information I have gathered and verified (on my 2001 XKR) for the equivalent Ford Lincoln LS (3.9L) parts:
Ford PN 2W9Z6K254BA Right Secondary metal bodied Tensioner (1 required)
Ford PN 2W9Z6K254CA Left Secondary metal bodied Tensioner (1 required)
Ford PN W500301S300 Bolt (4 required)
I got good pricing at http://www.sunroadfordparts.com. The Ford parts even said 'JAG' on the box.
Additionally, a good quality, fully compatible and complete gasket set (valve cover, full set of grommets, spark plug seals) is Felpro (Part # VS50724R) at a great price ($37.09 last I checked) from Rockauto. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...parttype,10710
BTW, my vert is at 58K, and the engine was quite clean inside indicating reasonably attentive maintenance and my old right tensioner had a 3/4 inch crack in the body and the left had 1/2 iinch crack. I definitely am glad I performed the upgrade before disaster struck.
On to the convertible top hoses next...no leaks yet but the black sheath is peeling off on all my hoses near the connectors...tick..tick..tick.
Ford PN 2W9Z6K254BA Right Secondary metal bodied Tensioner (1 required)
Ford PN 2W9Z6K254CA Left Secondary metal bodied Tensioner (1 required)
Ford PN W500301S300 Bolt (4 required)
I got good pricing at http://www.sunroadfordparts.com. The Ford parts even said 'JAG' on the box.
Additionally, a good quality, fully compatible and complete gasket set (valve cover, full set of grommets, spark plug seals) is Felpro (Part # VS50724R) at a great price ($37.09 last I checked) from Rockauto. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...parttype,10710
BTW, my vert is at 58K, and the engine was quite clean inside indicating reasonably attentive maintenance and my old right tensioner had a 3/4 inch crack in the body and the left had 1/2 iinch crack. I definitely am glad I performed the upgrade before disaster struck.
On to the convertible top hoses next...no leaks yet but the black sheath is peeling off on all my hoses near the connectors...tick..tick..tick.
#57
01-30-2011, 10:39 AM
Veteran Member
#58
01-30-2011, 02:48 PM
#59
02-09-2011, 07:46 PM
Junior Member
#60
02-13-2011, 08:28 AM
Veteran Member
I am posting this thread from the XJ forum as a cautionary note of what can go wrong (broken camshaft !) with the zip-tie (remove the camshaft) method if the camshaft gets stressed during re-insertion.
Be careful out there !
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49784
Be careful out there !
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49784