Prospective xk8,


actually, it could have initiated a chain of events that led up to the mechanic's findings. unfortunately, the gentleman has already admitted to having done what he did. I haven't read any replies yet that seem to be 'forensic' in nature, so, given the admission, it appears that the owner & mechanic have the upper hand here.


UNLESS, one of you xk8 guru's just outright and emphatically denies the possibility or plausibility of 'the simple opening of the expansion reservoir while HOT' could have led to the mechanic's finding of calamities and can state so, with authority.


good luck, sir.


that you publically admitted to the error demonstrates you have the utmost level of integrity.


in todays world, that's a breath of fresh air & an outright act of CLASS on your part!


here! here!

 

Well, they are telling you what happened to the car, which may all be true, but the question is as to whether or not something that you did caused all of this to happen. Get them to explain to you why it is that they think that some action of yours caused these damages.

And, once again, I go back to my previous post where I suggested that you take that information to another Jag mechanic to see what he thinks about it and get it in writing. If he confirms that something that you did caused all of this, then you need to make arrangements with the seller and if not, you have grounds to contest their claims against you. Unless you just up and pay them, this may very well end up in court, and, at this point, you need to gather evidence from experts who will give you written reports.

Unfortunately, I don't think that, "Well, a bunch of guys from a Jaguar forum on the internet said that I didn't do anything wrong." will carry much weight.

 

Hi,
It seams it really is not black or white. The OP went for a test drive in a car he was considering to purchase. He did what any other person might reasonably do without hindsight and open an expansion tank while hot. XK8 engines do seam hotter than most engines. when he realized the engine had lost coolant, he then states he did not drive it, obtained coolant, refilled, then when returned the car and made it very clear what he had done and suggested the dealer checked the levels.

The Dealer seams the negligent party, in that he states he then drove the car for 30-40 miles without checking the levels despite being prompted too. I think he stated the coolant low light was on.

I dont think the OP did anything different that any other person might have done, he went further by informing the dealer and prompting the dealer to check the levels so to avoid any risk.

I would suggest the op does not accept liability unless the dealer can proove any damage was caused by the initial action. It may well be the damage was caused by the dealers failure to follow information given to him to check coolant levels.

Id also be concerned as to the mechanical state of the engine prior to this, as if described no air intake was fitted, it should not have run properly and the additional engine warning lights would raise further concerns.

Good Luck

Steveeasy

 

Its also entirely possible that this radiator problem existed before you went to look and may be the reason he was trying to sell it in the first place. Now the seller is using this incident as a way to get it fixed at your expense. I would not do anything until a mechanic of your choice gives their opinion. If the seller refuses to let your mechanic look at it I'd be very suspect of his intentions.


Dave

 

Hey there Dave! i'm definitely not a lawyer and I certainly feel for the gentleman.


it's a little bit like borrowing a friend's car, or maybe a neighbor's car to run an errand as yours is not available for one reason or another. that's always a risky venture because the car you just borrowed could in fact 'break down' while you are in custody of it. fault kind of gets lost in the reality that it broke ON YOUR WATCH.


how much liability does one incur in a situation like that?!! I don't really know.


and because im NOT a lawyer, it seems that he's in a little bit of a 'jam'.


if it were me, and the gentleman DID admit to having did what he did, publically, i'd probably just offer to pay HALF (1/2) of repairing the car.


if the car is otherwise acceptable to him, maybe the owner would waive 1/2 of the costs if he BUYS the car.


keeping one's inner 'well being' is more important than any amount of money. and i'm somebody that really doesn't HAVE any money, to speak of.


the man seems to be a man of honor and hopefully this will get resolved to everyone's satisfaction!


hope you're well, Dave,


frank

 

Thanks again guys.

I have replied to the mechanic to seek clarification on why he believes the overheating or damage was caused by the release and refill of coolant, rather than by driving with low levels. I also asked why there is no OBDII information available. I am concerned that the mechanic has not been reading the codes despite errors on dash. Do I want to buy that car? Probably not. Will update. I appreciate the kind words and input to date.

I have been advised by others that there is generally no way the release/refill causes radiator damage, but I think because of the presumed innocence of the seller and the 'chain of events' theory I will certainly offer to pay half the quoted figure.

 

B..L S..T!!! That happened to me during a vehicle inspection once with no bad after effects. That cooling system in not that delicate. Unless there was a pre existing problem there was nothing hurt by opening the cap while hot. Pressure doesn't drop instantly. There are some pretty small lines leading from the tank to the radiator that dampens the pressure drop.

Buy the car and drive it.

 

This cooler has burst because of high temperature and pressure.

There's your out... opening the expansion cap would only release pressure and ease any problems / NOTE: even if you did not open the tank, the way it's designed is it overflows if too much pressure to a reserve tank under passenger wheel well. I see your in UAE so this cars been in some higher than avg temp running.. I'd just walk away, tell the person if they have problems sue you and then have car impounded as evidence for a independent mechanic to look at, of course at the expense of the dealer since you will win your case.

 

you're overlooking the fact that he did MORE than just open the reservoir cap. he also says he added coolant. if he did so and for ANY REASON the water wasn't circulating and that 'cool' coolant came into contact with HOT block or head, events described indeed could have been caused by that.


I wasn't there so don't know all the facts.


and, it's shouldn't be about 'an out'!!! it should be about 'what's right' and finding out what actually happened so EVERYBODY can learn from this gentleman's experience.


that way, everybody WINS! money is just a TOOL. and it seems like a little bit spent here will buy a whole lot more than just some car repairs.


I wish him well and applaud his character, honor & maturity!

 

Out may have been the wrong word, but buyer beware isn't. One why did the dealer let him ADD fluid, no one in US would allow that from a potential buyer.
If you think of the coolant design (closed thermostat, ambient temp of 'added' coolant, not cold) This wouldn't break the radiator, I know I add a bit once in awhile to a 'just able to remove cap' temp (engine still hot) without any concern.

This forum is full of threads of people who bought cars.. looked good, appeared to run good.. then driving them home had issues, some probably known by PO and others perhaps not. Both dealer/buyer are culpable here.

 

Prospective xk8 does indeed seem to be a gentleman of character, honour and maturity, but what about the other party can we assume he is the same?
If not an 'out' may be exactly what is needed.
Of course determining exactly what caused the problem and each party doing the right thing is the ideal outcome, but that may never happen.
Strikes me that increased pressure may be the reason that 'a lot' of coolant spewed out when the cap was opened, pointing to a pre-existing problem.

 

the gentleman has already stated: 'Assuming there is nothing malicious going on, and I don't really get that vibe'.


personally, I could be wrong about everything! but, im from the old school where if something breaks while in my custody, I automatically feel like I've some inherent responsibility.


then the facts must unfold in order to determine just how much responsibility belongs to me.


all of us are assuming a great deal.


besides our character, honor & integrity, time is our most precious & potent possession.


I prefer to err on the side of me keeping all of that intact and finding some common ground with the owner that lets everybody feel ok about what happened.


if you're looking at buying an XKR, chances are that your finances are such that finding an accommodation that is acceptable to all concerned is within your reach.

 

I should point out that it's not a dealer who is selling the car - it's a private owner who openly admits not knowing anything about cars. He was there when I opened the tank, but I guess I seemed like I knew what I was doing. Apparently, in this case I don't.



I think maybe it's hard for him to grasp that something that looked dramatic might have had less impact than something that was just a warning light. I can understand that.

Lesson: Don't open the bugger while it's hot. It's not an overflow tank, it's a pressurised expansion. If you do manage to do that without burning your face off, make sure you double check the level and respond promptly to the warning messages!

Will see whether I can get any OBDII data from the mechanic and see whether he wants to claim it was the de-pressurising rather than the overheat/overpressurising caused by low levels. Not trying to get 'out' of anything, appreciate the comments above on both sides. Not feeling 100% responsible, but I'm not going to abandon the poor guy.

 

I'm with you on the feeling of responsibility, and also that the actual facts need to be revealed to decide on where that responsibility lies.

The fact of whether or not you can afford to take that responsibility is irrelevant except from a personal standpoint.

 

Well, the sell said he was interested in getting a Maserati next, so I presume both parties can afford to find fair settlement without too much quality of life immediately at stake.

 

Good to know.

 

Having had a similar issue with coolant loss due to the thermostat housing breaking, there was no subsequent problem with refilling quite a warm engine SLOWLY with water. Many on here have had the sudden coolant loss due to the thermostat housing breaking and not had any collatoral.

 

well, yes, from a personal standpoint. isn't everything we do, FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT?!!!


I consider 'TIME' to be the most precious asset we have! strictly from a personal perspective, if I have been both blessed & rewarded for my life's work/efforts and one of those rewards happens to be a decent amount of disposable income, i'm going to measure some events against that important equation....how much time can I or am I willing to devote to this seemingly convoluted situation, 'knowing' the facts as I do.


BECAUSE I can afford to enter into an accommodating arrangement that not only will resolve whats probably an innocent event, I will most likely make that decision and get on with my life!!! my TIME, and what I like to DO with my time will rule the case, not the money.


My money can be replaced, my TIME can not!

 

Well I'd consider time spent ensuring that I'm not being taken for a fool as time well spent. YMMV.

 

from what he is saying, that's precisely what he's doing, taking some good care.


he sounds pretty intelligent to ME!


and, ymmv, is always the case, isn't it?!!!