This happened to me, on my wife's 98 XJ8 VDP. The tensioner failed on the left bank, which caused the chain to fail and the cam, eventually causing one of the valves to be driven into the side of the cylinder wall, which gouged it. It had a Nikasil as the lining material, and could not be repaired, so the entire engine had to be replaced. This happened at 55K miles, and Jaguar refused to do *anything*.

I will say that I did not have good representation from the local dealer that was involved, and will *never* buy a car from them. I have actively discouraged others from buying from them and will always do so at every opportunity. I think that had the local dealer stood up for me when this happened, especially the mileage, Jaguar would have helped in *some* way.

Thinking back, I seem to recall it cost me around $5500 for a good used engine and install charge.

 

What a lot of folks fail to realize, is that Jaguar, or ANY current manufacturer [actually assembler is a better term] has one goal; that is to make the FIRST purchaser as happy as they can for a REASONABLE period of time. That reasonable period of time usually means the warranty period. I'm sorry folks, that means 80-85% of us here on this forum do not even enter into the equation, at least to them. That's just "business" to car companies, scratch that, ANY company anymore.
Beyond that, Brutal was spot on making the case I usually make about the timing chains of old and timing belts. I NEVER heard anyone say they should recall cars because timing chains kept failing. They fixed them and went on. In my early days at independents I sold chains and gears as preventative repairs, just like I do tensioners today.

I guess it's all just a matter of perspective. I don't necessarily like it, I just know that's what is!

My two cents.........

Cheers,

 

I think what it really comes down to in the case of tensioners is lack of a risk management philosophy or failsafe philosophy or whatever you want to call it. The failure of a few dollar part resulting in the need to replace an engine just does not make sense. There should have been something built-in like a warning that failure is imminent or a system to protect the engine innards. Or was the so-called "death rattle" considered to be that early warning?


Doug

 

Jaguar may have been better served to incorporate a timing chain service at 50,000 mi as routine maintenance that we all paid for as part of owning a high-end car. I'm sure other owners of other expensive cars put up with alot of these types of service intervals because they have a "special" car. Even my Volvo requires timing belt service that can only be ignored at the owner's peril.

 

As an engineer, I design plastic components daily. To offer a different perspective, I'd like to note that there aren't simply two classes of material (plastic and metal). There are many types of engineered plastics that will be used in engine designs for years to come. I see the failure as definitely one of improper material selection for the expected life, but not because they didn't use metal. Thoughts?

 

The Plastic that Jag used on the Tensioners seems to be the same on the latest design as the first designs.

The critical difference is that the latest Metal design allows for the shrinkage of the Plastic without failure (the Plastic Wear Shoe is a "Loose, but captive" fit on the metal part).

If a Plastic capable of high resistance to wear and NO SHRINKAGE would have been available and used, there would have been no problem.

 

It's an unfortunate fact of life, but sometimes good engineers make bad decisions, and more and more, it's the buying public that gets left holding the bag. Jaguar certainly isn't the first company to circle the wagons after a design flaw or shortcoming has revealed itself in the field, and it won't be the last. GM (the Corvair, the aluminum heads in Vegas), Ford (exploding Pintos, rolling Explorers) Microsoft (Vista), the list goes on and on. Once the full extent of the problem becomes apparent, it's the Bean Counters, the Actuaries, and the Lawyers who plot the retreat. Caterpillar, with it's excellent reputation for bullet-proof engines, made a serious mistake with its venerable 3208 diesel engines. What started out as a modest two-hundred-and-change horsepower normally-aspirated engine grew in output (in Marine applications, where abundant cooling is available) to 425 hp turbocharged versions, with builders clamouring for units because of its high horsepower-to-weight ratio, and excellent durability. For reasons known only to Cat, that 425 ho version was delivered with aluminum composite gaskets between the exhaust manifolds and the turbo (both water cooled) instead of the asbestos/composite gaskets that worked so well in the lesser hp versions. To the great surprise of some (engineers at Cat, anyway) the aluminum dissolved under the assault of hot salt water, and the engines began to ingest a mist of hot salt water through the turbos. Cylinder walls galled, rings failed, and the 425s began dropping like flies. Cat announced that it reserved the right to modify, change, or (maybe) improve its engines without warning or right of redress, went back to the old-style gasket material, and toughed it out, thank you very much! If you think replacing/rebuilding an AJ20-series engine in a car is bad, try exchanging a pair of 8 cyl Cat diesels in a yacht that was built around them. Al least you don't have to saw a 4 x 8 hole in the roof and rip out an interior.
I changed my tensioners JUST in time (see previous posts) thanks to the crowd here at the Forum, and will go on loving my car. I take your point; Sir William Lyons or Sir Henry Royce would have stepped up to the plate without hesitation but, unfortunately, they no longer run their respective companies. Accountants do.

 

But, they did end up correcting the issue, unlike the convertible top latch hose which they made worse.

And, with your car, tensioners aren't the issue, the only one really left on the 05 is the hydraulic hose.

In any event, every car has it's own maintenance issues and from everything I've seen Jaguar wasn't really doing much worse than any other manufacturer for the time period.

 

Some intresting points raised in this debate, just want to add my twopenneth for what its worth.
Jaguar, like all " Manufacturers" are reliant on their componant suppliers , Jaguar don,t make gauges, switches or senders ,VDO do, they don,t make spark plugs, NGK do or tyres, Pirrelli do and so on.....So although what rolls off the the line is a Jaguar car, its really just a pile of other manufacturers parts.
So when designing anything as complex as a motorcar alot of trust is put into componant specialists.
Whether the famous tensioners were designed on a drawing board at Browns Lane or entrusted to a specialist manufacturer of tensioners I don,t know (I Suspect it would be the latter) but as the car says Jaguar on the badge then it,s their responsability in the end, glad I,m not a car manufacturer.
Anyone know why the V6 dosn,t suffer with the same problem.
regards Bob

 

I will not make excuses for Jaguar or anyone associated with it directly or indirectly the total responsibility is Jaguar. If they elect to take it to the designer or the manufacture that is up to them. The fact of the matter is that the Tentioners fail far too often to accept it as an infrequent event. This also applies to the Hyd Hoses and the A&B drums in the transmission.

I am on the most part an understanding person but in this case I will not accept the fact that Jaguar an upper end car manufacture has done nothing but turn its back on its most important asset its customers. They cater to the first purchaser in an effort for them to return and at times they fail to do their best.

 

the tensioner problem is not as big as we are suggesting here. So jaguar is not to blame. It is not even 2% of the cars involved so does jaguar have to check every car themselves! Most cases were picked up at regular maintenance intervals anyway.
And if you bought a cheap Jag without any maintenance records, what do you expect!

I'm aware of more serious and frequent cases with failing Mercedes and BMW engine cases than Jaguar.
In fact, I don't know anybody with a Jag who had an engine failure in the last 15 years. But I know a couple of persons who had snapped timing chains (including myself), broken turbo's and much more on their Mercedes and BMW engines.
and what to think about the liquid cooled Porsche engines! They do all fail at 100.000 kms with no exception and the manufacturer is doing nothing.

So please guys, stop wining about the chain guides issue. It's the smallest worry on these cars as you can easily prevent any engine damage for a few bucks. which is also cheaper than a regular timing belt change on many different cars.

 

I agree to disagree! Most of the failures were prevented by good preventive maintenance.