2002 XKR Convertible
Unknown condition - basically, recovered from a field

Hey everyone, it's been awhile. I just recently acquired this abandoned XKR & am assessing the state of the machine as I consider the value of applying for an abandoned title, vs. just parting it out.

Today's concern, the rear wheels barely turn when being pulled by tow, and they are impossible to turn by hand. I see evidence of abuse by prior owners, judging from the condition of the interior and trunk compartment. I suspect the car was driven quite hard & left in a broken state, possibly with either a failed differential or failed transmission.

To note, I am unable to test any power from the trans, because the engine won't stay running. I can start the engine by directly spraying fuel into the throttle body, but this is yet another case of neglected and failed fuel pumps. I've already disconnected the fuel lines from the tank in preparation to replace them, but haven't acquired the pumps yet.

To be clear, the drivetrain feels "stuck" no matter the gear. So for the sake of this discussion, assuming we're in Park (or, driveshaft not turning via either Park or a seized trans,) with both rear wheels off the ground, most differentials I've seen in the past would allow wheel rotation with opposite direction of rotation on the side axles while the driveshaft remains stationary, however on this vehicle, they don't. Should they rotate? Does this already exhibit a failure in the differential?

I'm trying to diagnose without going thru the effort of detaching the driveshaft, but if I have to do so, I can get started. It's quite the procedure without a lift.

Thanks in advance!

 

Could also be DRAGGING BRAKES, either the calipers or shoes?

 

Were the XKRs ever fitted with the Jaguar electronic limited slip diff? I've no idea so just posing the question.

Richard

 

Thought that but assumed he would've checked those first ?

 

Not on an '02.

 

The LAST LSD from Jaguar was the X300/X305 and the XJS. 1997 X100 and 1998 X308 were NOT fitted with LSD. (only TRACTION CONTROL)

 

hello Richard,

I’ve looked into that as far as the internet can take one, and so far have found nothing to indicate that a limited slip differential was ever used.

But I’ve not seen any “official” statement to that effect either….

Z

 

My apologies for not providing the detail - the brakes are not binding. In fact I've loosened the parking brake cable to make certain.

I just spent some time double-checking everything. With a pry bar on the lugs, I actually managed to make the axle move on the driver's side. I marked the passenger half shaft and the driveshaft, to detect movement, and they remain stationary. I'm pretty sure that should never be the case, right? If one half shaft is moving but the other half shaft and driveshaft remain stationary? I guess I thought if the diff is somehow dry, but still functional, maybe it just needs the oil changed, but this seems to indicate a total failure, unless I am totally misunderstanding how diff's work. But, Park should be Park, meaning these wheels should not do what I'm seeing here... right?

 

I've found in other posts that this should in fact be an open / basic differential assembly. After brushing up on basic differential function, and with the above symptoms, I suspect I have a badly worn or mangled spider gear assembly, or something like that. Once I crack it open, I'll be sure to take a photo and post it here.

I'm going to follow these basic steps to drop the subframe all as one unit, then work from there. At least, I don't know of an easier way to R&R the diff.

It's slightly humorous that I already released the fuel lines (the hard way) for the fuel pumps when it would have been a piece of cake after dropping the subframe....

 

Kind of keeping a log as I go along so I don't lose these notes:

1. I put in the fuel pumps and fired up the engine, put the transmission in D and R while recording video of the driveshaft under the car. Transmission seems to be working. Differential has a heavy clunk - I immediately stopped testing.
2. After that test, oddly the rear axles now turn by hand, though stiff. I noticed on camera, it briefly nudged the rotors forward about 1/4 turn but nothing more. Maybe I killed the rest of the spider gear, or something. Again, they turn independently and do not "talk" to any of the other shafts.

So, I've begun dropping the subframe. Rear subframe assembly removal notes:

1. I tried to get a hold of the notorious exhaust pipe mounting bolts over the axles, and though it would have been possible to get them by hand (I did loosen one this way,) I opted instead to detach the rear hanger, front clamps (the clamps immediately aft the main, shared muffler,) then pretty much just pop the pipes out of the rubber hanger above the axles with a bit of wiggling and sharp downward force on the pipes rear of the wheel well. I may be being overly cautious, but my fear was damage to the muffler / forward if I didn't loosen anything, and then tried to drop and remove the exhaust with the subframe. (lots of tension on those pipes / bending things)
2. For the driveshaft bolts, I just put the trans in Neutral and worked the bolts one at a time, using a 17mm open-end (I could not fit a box end over the nut) wedged against the subframe plate. The wrench has to maintain 90 degrees to the shaft to maintain a good enough grip, and I kept pressure on it while breaking the bolt loose. So, facing the differential from under the car, this was roughly the 8:00 position. Then it was just patience and lots of turns with a 13mm box-end on the bolts. I think they used some high-grade loctite on here or something, because they were tight until the last few threads.
3. Calpers, brackets, rotors, ABS wiring, parking brake cable, shock top plate nuts, brace bolts, and bracket bolts all came off easily.
4. However, only the driver's side is dropping. The passenger side is stuck; I've removed the mounting bracket, and the long bolt for the subframe comes out, but the subframe will not detach from the frame. Tried sledge hammering, tried a pickle fork, but at the point where any more force will begin bending things. I don't want to use heat due to the rubber grommet which seems to be in OK condition.

I'm leaving the subframe-to-frame joint to soak in penetrating lubricant overnight, will just continue with patience tomorrow. This, I believe, is the only piece remaining before I can ease it down and roll it out. If it is still stubborn tomorrow, I will try disconnecting the driver's side, leave the passenger's side bolt a few threads in to control the fall, and gently rock the whole assembly forward and back 1/4" or so (while on the jack of course) to see if I can twist it just enough to break loose.

 

Ultimately, I ended up putting a jack under the passenger's side of the frame as close to the bushing as possible, then removed the bolt completely and used alternating gentle heat until the bushing started to smoke a bit, then spray the penetrating lube, bang with the pickle fork, and repeat until after about 10 iterations it finally began to nudge loose.

As I am too tired to go any further, I will save cracking the differential open until tomorrow after work.

... Yes this was a driveway job, yes I drug it out sideways thru the wheel well.

 

Well, I received my replacement differential while away on vacation, but now I have an issue. After coming back home, it had been moved out of the way & the original order of parts has been lost.

Does anyone have a reference to a TSB or any other doc that can show how the differential and subframe come together? I know where most of it goes, but I want to refer to a diagram to be sure. For instance, the placement of spacers / washers and the backing plate that goes under the rear bolt/studs on the back...

If not, I can try to extrapolate from photos and my other XK8, but it's obviously easier and better to use a diagram if I can find one.

 

The attached extract from JTIS should help.

 

You have a job on your hands, good luck and best wishes to you. I love learning these things through someone else's experience. Then I won't make as many mistakes or things done the hard way. Thanks fore the lessons. This is indeed the best forum in the world. TM

 

TL;DR: For the first time in seven years or more (again, this was abandoned in a field) this machine has driven under its own power. @michaelh thank you for the diagrams, they were invaluable.

Attached, a photo of the chewed-up ring gear from the old unit. Several metal teeth came out when I disassembled it. Why the wheels wouldn't move at first is still unexplained, but my current assumption is that the pinion gear managed to somehow get jammed up in the ring gear's broken teeth, or perhaps one of the loose bits got jammed somewhere, then managed to fall out with enough whacking and jiggling. I'll probably never know for sure.

But, not without a lot of effort, this came back together and works wonderfully. Thanks again to all involved.

Some notes for anyone who follows down this same path and finds this article:

• Leave the side axles connected to the final drive until the unit is in its repair station; once the axles are disconnected, it's difficult to move the assembly without dragging and damaging the brake backing plates.
• Moving the exhaust isn't as bad as it may seem, and in fact, don't be afraid to pop the clamps up front, unbolt the rear hangars, & just pull / twist repeatedly to remove from the final drive rubber hangars and main muffler.
• When reinstalling the pendulum (very heavy chunk of metal in front of the final drive) you may find the bottom two bolts may wander a bit, making it quite difficult to line up perfectly. If you can work one of the two lower bolts loose, knocking it backward and out of the way, it's a lot easier to slide the pendulum onto the remaining three bolts, then line up the fourth. I used an impact gun on LOW power to gently ease it back in. Speaking of the pendulum, make sure it's oriented correctly. It is not at a perpendicular angle to the unit, it leans back slightly when oriented correctly.
• During reinstall, against how it may seem, I found hanging the struts first to be the easiest way. But don't forget to connect the strut sensors first. If you slowly turn the sensor with gentle downward pressure, it eventually finds its own orientation and slips down.
• If you are removing and replacing the exhaust pipes in pieces, fit them all loosely before tightening anything. They will not line up correctly if you simply slide them "all the way," the end tailpiece will come nowhere close to its hangar and you will find it necessary to redo all. On that note, I found the factory Jaguar pipes to be very forgiving on the joints when fitting back together. There is a lot of overlap distance, and they slip on easier than I would have expected.
• Accessing the final drive fill plug with the assembly together, don't use an extension - the rear suspension bars will get in the way and give a bad torque angle. You should be able to just finagle a 1/2" drive ratchet directly around the cooling fins of the rear plate, and it will give much better access with less risk of stripping things.
• Lots of little common tips - on the driveshaft bolts, giving a little turn by hand helps them slip thru the pinion flange; grease on the pipe fittings help the exhaust pipes slip on easy and facilitate fine-tuning easily in position. Same with the hangars, a little grease on the rear hangars make it easier to pop the pipes on. Note where all the bits go BEFORE removing things, and don't let any roommates move things. (Better yet, don't leave things in the way when leaving for vacation!)

 

Well done. Glad you got there.

Another cat saved?

 

There is still much to do but yes, I believe I am saving this one. I have to admit, driving this just around the block, it feels like a completely different car from the XK8. It feels like the XK8's big brother by comparison...

Here in Missouri, USA, to obtain a title for an abandoned vehicle, I must:

• Prove an attempt to contact previous title holder with either returned mail or signed receipt of letter (my letter was returned undeliverable)
• Prove the vehicle is in legal driving condition (currently in progress - the final drive was the major issue) Remaining issues are driver's mirror is shattered, rear view mirror isn't mounted, engine codes must be cleared / resolved, possibly other things I am missing
• Trailer to the local state police headquarters for thorough inspection and VIN check for theft (already checked VIN history myself)
• Submit proof of all of the above to the state & fill out the application

I've never applied for an abandoned vehicle title before. I'm doing the minimum to obtain the title, but once that is realized, I will then begin the rest of the work:

• Top is not properly opening and closing (the right latch won't "find" it's seat, and the top hits the back seat when retracting and requires a push to get past)
• Rear windows: Passenger won't go down, driver's won't go up
• Restricted Perf mode
• Multiple engine codes
• Suspension, Traction, ABS, SRS faults (oh my!)
• Worn suspension mounts (Hopefully Wayne still does these...)
• New tires / brakes / rotors all around (thankfully, all the calipers seem functional)
• Many panels - most trunk panels are missing, driver's door panel was rained on for 6 years (driver's window was left open)
• Likely new carpet and seat covers eventually

So. I certainly shall not run out of things to do!

 

Odd that it just got dumped. It's a shame - perhaps the PO's patience just ran out when the diff went south.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavours. Perhaps a new 'recovery thread' progress log? (I love happy endings!)

 

So you just towed the abandoned car out of a field? No one charged you any money for it?

 

No no, I discussed with the property owner many times. He had it in his field for years. This year, he eventually gave up on it, too much work to get the paperwork sorted out, not to mention the repair work needed, and said if I gave him $500 he would drop it off in my driveway. After I checked the VIN for theft or other title history, and it came back clean, I agreed.

I don't consider that "buying the car" as much as a bit of a gamble that I can get all the paperwork sorted. As I said, the first thing I did was attempt to contact the legal title owner before turning a single bolt. Next is to get it to the state highway patrol office for an evaluation, then finally application for title.

For a bit of history, the way it ended up in the field (according to this person) is someone years ago sold it to him with the promise of producing a title, which they never did. Then that individual more or less disappeared, not returning calls or responding in any way. Since it's not reported stolen, I think it just went thru too many title skips, and was heavily abused in the interim (hence the trashed final drive and many other issues) and nobody cared enough about it to make an effort.

I realize this may seem like a long shot & not a wise financial move, but hey, at the very least, I have the pleasure of potentially saving another one from the scrap yard.