Do we as owners of modern automobiles expect too much?
#21
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al_roethlisberger (10-20-2015)
#22
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#24
Just to add a little fuel to the fire, I note this years winner of Le Mans was a Porshe, but once again it didn't go as fast nor cover the same distance as the Porshe that won in 1971.
The 917 set an overall speed and distance record in 1971 that was not broken until 2010.
Yes I'm mindful of restrictions and track changes but a racing record that stands for nearly 40 years is remarkable.
1960's Yank Tanks might have been dangerous at speed, that was not true of all cars of that period. The E type Jag, introduced in 1961 had 4 wheel disc brakes, Independent suspension all round and a 150 mph top speed, with I might add only a 3.8 liter six.
Regards,
The 917 set an overall speed and distance record in 1971 that was not broken until 2010.
Yes I'm mindful of restrictions and track changes but a racing record that stands for nearly 40 years is remarkable.
1960's Yank Tanks might have been dangerous at speed, that was not true of all cars of that period. The E type Jag, introduced in 1961 had 4 wheel disc brakes, Independent suspension all round and a 150 mph top speed, with I might add only a 3.8 liter six.
Regards,
Regarding our XK8s...The electronics seem rather complicated and disorganized compared with a modern car, but mine is a project car and suffers from 18 years of electronic / mechanical abuse, broken connectors and too many wire splices...On the other hand, my 1994 XJ6 daily driver was very reliable mechanically and electrically. Thought not perfect my XJ6 was almost comparable to a modern car in reliability, comfort - and I assume - safety.
#25
Just to add a little fuel to the fire, I note this years winner of Le Mans was a Porshe, but once again it didn't go as fast nor cover the same distance as the Porshe that won in 1971.
The 917 set an overall speed and distance record in 1971 that was not broken until 2010.
Yes I'm mindful of restrictions and track changes but a racing record that stands for nearly 40 years is remarkable.
1960's Yank Tanks might have been dangerous at speed, that was not true of all cars of that period. The E type Jag, introduced in 1961 had 4 wheel disc brakes, Independent suspension all round and a 150 mph top speed, with I might add only a 3.8 liter six.
Regards,
The 917 set an overall speed and distance record in 1971 that was not broken until 2010.
Yes I'm mindful of restrictions and track changes but a racing record that stands for nearly 40 years is remarkable.
1960's Yank Tanks might have been dangerous at speed, that was not true of all cars of that period. The E type Jag, introduced in 1961 had 4 wheel disc brakes, Independent suspension all round and a 150 mph top speed, with I might add only a 3.8 liter six.
Regards,
They overheated in traffic, and always needed someone to work on them. If you needed a clutch in any sports car of the period, the engine and trans would need to come out. Jaguars and Ferraris of that vintage made me a ton of money, when the owners brought them to the shop I worked in.
The only reason we can talk about the good old days, is forgetting about the bad things. I was a mechanic, so I saw what the good old days cost people. XKE headgaskets, from a substandard cooling system, and an electrical system created by a child, Ferrari bottom ends due to an oil pump made for a 4 cylinder car of today, Porsche hydraulic chain tensioners trashing the valve train, unless they were started every so often during the winter. Jaguar inboard rear disc brakes, with the exhaust almost riding on top of them, so the old brake fluid was almost certain to boil. The yank tanks at least were suitable for the road, because they were over engineered over weight heavy beasts, that couldn't handle, unless you got rid of any suspension travel other than body flex, instead of Collin Chapman making his cars so light, that he was killing his drivers, when the cars came apart at races.
The good old days were not so good, unless you were in the business of fixing cars. Why do you think old sports cars, or old cars in general cost so much. They didn't survive......Be cool.....Mike
Last edited by mrplow58; 10-20-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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#26
Mike,
You're being too harsh.
If Jags and Lotus were as bad as you say Jag could never have won Le Mans 5 times by 1957 nor could Lotus have won over 70 G.P.s, and several Indianapolis wins. Porsche have won Le Mans 17 times. As Ford learned preparing for their 4 successive wins in the 60's, you don't win by being unreliable.
You're being too harsh.
If Jags and Lotus were as bad as you say Jag could never have won Le Mans 5 times by 1957 nor could Lotus have won over 70 G.P.s, and several Indianapolis wins. Porsche have won Le Mans 17 times. As Ford learned preparing for their 4 successive wins in the 60's, you don't win by being unreliable.
#27
There's no question that engines, transmissions, suspensions, and safety equipment are all far better today compared to yesteryear....
What burns me up about these Jaguars, though, is the use of inferior plastics in so many components within the engine compartment. I believe that the lousy plastics and failing electronics will eventually be the reasons I kick both of our Jaguars out of our stable....
What burns me up about these Jaguars, though, is the use of inferior plastics in so many components within the engine compartment. I believe that the lousy plastics and failing electronics will eventually be the reasons I kick both of our Jaguars out of our stable....
#28
Mike,
You're being too harsh.
If Jags and Lotus were as bad as you say Jag could never have won Le Mans 5 times by 1957 nor could Lotus have won over 70 G.P.s, and several Indianapolis wins. Porsche have won Le Mans 17 times. As Ford learned preparing for their 4 successive wins in the 60's, you don't win by being unreliable.
You're being too harsh.
If Jags and Lotus were as bad as you say Jag could never have won Le Mans 5 times by 1957 nor could Lotus have won over 70 G.P.s, and several Indianapolis wins. Porsche have won Le Mans 17 times. As Ford learned preparing for their 4 successive wins in the 60's, you don't win by being unreliable.
Lotus killed probably the best natural driver of all time, in Jim Clark, and was the first builder ever sued by a customer for making an unsafe race car. They killed 3 race drivers due to their method of removing weight from cars, instead of putting in more powerful engines. 3 drivers in 70 wins are not very good odds. I love the modern Lotus street livery, but the company was forced to make them safer, although some models are not safe enough for export.
Ferrari never sold it's race cars to customers, so they could not be sued, but still felt the driver was a replaceable commodity.
Jaguar, and Porsche at least had some humanity. I was strictly talking about street cars in my comments......Be cool....Mike
Last edited by mrplow58; 10-21-2015 at 08:35 AM.
#29
There's no question that engines, transmissions, suspensions, and safety equipment are all far better today compared to yesteryear....
What burns me up about these Jaguars, though, is the use of inferior plastics in so many components within the engine compartment. I believe that the lousy plastics and failing electronics will eventually be the reasons I kick both of our Jaguars out of our stable....
What burns me up about these Jaguars, though, is the use of inferior plastics in so many components within the engine compartment. I believe that the lousy plastics and failing electronics will eventually be the reasons I kick both of our Jaguars out of our stable....
My interior is in very good shape but for the drivers seat and it is not bad. I was shocked that at 98k when I bought it the steering wheel looked like it was a year old. Looks almost new.
I just worry about all the electronic things in this car will be hard to find if I have this car LOOONG term.
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