if you spray pb blaster or liquid wrench down the outside of the oil tube. It will generally loosen the tube from the block. If it still sticks i drop a large punch or phillips screwdriver in the tube to leverage it(wiggle it back and forth hard) and pop it up.

 

"if you spray pb blaster or liquid wrench down the outside of the oil tube."

PB Blaster and Patience are a perfect combination,,, That stuff has never left me stranded,,, Now that being said some issues might require more penetrating time,,, a tap with a hammer or even heat.... Maybe even (wiggle it back and forth hard) But it works well.

 

Oh no sounds as if we are on that slippery slope again!

Al

 

Brutal- reminds me that I thought I bought the farm when, trying to move the tube, it just pulled out of the block. WTF! Went on to finish the job, and was so relieved to see the tube just pushed back in.

 

Wow, you guys are awesome... I am contemplating buying an XKR as a retirement toy..

Recently had to change the timing chain on my son's Golf but we got an engine management signal on the dash before any damage was done and the VAG dealer did the £700 job. Is this not the case with the XK8/XKR or does it just go bang?

Currently in negotiations over a 2002 XKR with a dubious service history so thinking about getting tensioners done immediately. Anything else life threatening I should consider.

 

I did the change as you can see well before failure. But I went to a local shop that had done the job on one that had 74K miles on it and in that case it went bang. It cost $8,500.00 at the shop for the job. I don't know of any warning it had. There is no sensor that will tell you if the tensioner is about to come apart. And I would imaginge if it does it is too late. This is not something that you want to put off. It was not a hard job if you are careful and take your time. In fact I rather enjoyed doing the job. Be very careful disconnecting the breather hoses especially on the left bank and the dip stick bracket is hard. I like what I did and would do it again on another engine if I ever do another one.

Don't delay with the secondary tensioners. The primary tensioners I believe start to rattle before they are serious.

Anything else depends on the mileage. Mine had 40K and everything else is OK for now. It now has 47K on it. If you buy a convertible there is a top pressure problem that you should do researh on. I used the resistor method which I so far have had good luck.

Have fun.

EZDriver 2000 XK8 95 X300

 

98' XJ8
135K Miles

Rattle noise from engine lead me to inspect the Secondary Chain Tensioners. After removing the valve covers I found that both left and right side had been replaced with the 3rd generation secondary tensioners. The left driver side chain was taught (tight) with the secondary tensioner spring action working.

The right passenger side secondary chain was a bit loose about a 1/4 of an inch. Not knowing that the spring action on the right side was not the same as the left I assumed that something was wrong with the tensioner so I decided to replace it. Using the zip tie method and raising the lower cam I took it out only to find the spring was at the bottom and appeared to work fine and it had minimal wear. I put in the new tensioner and found that the slack or looseness was about the same. This makes me think that the slack is normal depending on the position of the cam and noise is from something else.

What do you wise and experienced men think about the direction I should turn now? Is normal for the right side secondary chain to be little loose? Could the lower tensioners affect the taughtness of the secondary chain? Should I put it back together so I can hear the noise first hand and/or have it examined professionally?

Thanks in advance!

 

No cam chain should be loose, but some tiny bit of movement is necessary to prevent excessive wear from being over tight. Loose chains whip and kick around making matters worse. Not to mention less than accurate cam timing. Chain setups always go thru a harmonic vibration at certain engine speeds. Just look at motorcycle drive chains at speed.
Could it be it just seems loose because you checking it with the engine off and there is no oil pressure to finally expand the tensioner? 3rd gens are more dependent on oil pressure and less from just the spring. You should be able to pull the slider & piston up and see if there is enough travel left to tighten the chain the rest of the way without pulling the piston too high. The spring is there under the piston to hold partial tension till you build up engine oil pressure.
I too have noticed the 3rd gen tensioners don't have the same spring tension, but the oil pressure makes up for this. Expect a slight rattle upon startup that fades quickly.
Doing my 4.0 XKR secondaries @ 80k, I noticed that the chains are very worn, and that any future repairs to my engine would include replacing the chains and primary tensioners, but I am not quite there yet.

 

I ditto Marc. His explanation is very good. But, with that many miles in my opinion you are at the stage of needing to replace the chains in the near future and that is a big job. By looking at the condition of the engine with the covers off does it look like it has been well taken care of. Is it relatively clean or dirty around the cams. Depending on how well it was taken care of you might just have established the mileage limit for the wear factor on the chains.

good luck

 

Expect a lot of noise from cam chains with more than 100k miles for sure. I seen a lot of small block Chevys & Fords with loose chains actually cut into the timing chain covers till they lost their engine oil. Chains rarely stretch, but the hole in the links and pins wear a lot. This changes the "pitch" AND the "length" of the chain. Now you got some wearing in the sprockets too, and it starts to wear both sides of the sprocket teeth instead of only the loaded side. Pretty soon it will jump the track and now you got a mess to contend with that could range from just a chain job, to swapping out the whole motor depending on how you work the pencil. Imagine that on the side of the road in a different state from which you reside. Just getting the car home would be quite the exercise for many people.
Way back I did 5 years in a chain saw shop. We didn't just do saws. We did a lot of diesel and generator work too. Anything we sold, but it started out as a saw shop.
There was quite a difference in wear patterns between the chains on a high speed saw and chains on a low speed saw. Our saws ran between 8,000 & 15,000+ rpm. The higher speed does more to "stretch" the chains than lower speeds do. Usually the high speed has a chain on it that has oil scoops in the links feeding more oil to the pins. Maybe today it's a universal thing. But right there I learned how much the chain affects sprocket life. Chains and sprockets don't bed in like pistons and rings do. As the chain "stretches", it quits running smoothly over the sprockets and begins to try and jump over the previous tooth. It does make a noise and does begin to eat away at the sprocket. Automotive sprockets are very durable and you probably will never have to replace them since they usually get proper oiling and don't get the dirt and see the speeds the saws see. . I just mention these things because I like to hear the engine sing a lot, and it's when it's singing, it's chains are being the most stressed, and you can hear them the least.

 

Thank you Marc and EZDriver I appreciate your responses. Man! Marc you know your CHAINS! The engine looks good and very clean. I think that the chain may be alright, I'm gonna turn the engine (clockwise right?) a couple of times to see how the loose chain reacts.

Looking through the maintenance records for this car I found an estimate to fix the noise by replacing the whole timing chain system $2800, they mentioned ticking noise is most likely coming from the Primary Chain Tensioners Bleeding Down. I have to decide what to do...I know the kit to change everything is around $700 dollars, but I don't have many tools nor recent experience.

The car stopped running a while back that is supposed to be fuel related. I'm thinking about closing up the front and address the starting problem first and really see how bad the noise is, why preparing for a complete chain job.

 

Remember we have these cars because they are fun. So have fun

EZDriver

 

RE: The torque values for the tensioners and cam caps are 14 and 11 nm respectively.

Not to question your expertise - it would seem that Cam Caps would be torqued tighter than the tensioners ? Just checking and where could I find all the torque spec's for a 1997 XK8

Do you have to remove CAM CAPS in intake Valve cam too ?

 

You can get the torque values from and much more from JTIS, which you can download from this forum. Check the "Sticky" near the top of the forum page.
According to one of the experts on the forum, when two torque values are given, ie 10- 14 Nm, the first is for used bolts and the second for new. Here are the torque settings for the tensioner project:
Ignition Coil 4- 6 Nm
Cam Cover 9- 11 Nm
Tensioner 10- 14 Nm
Cam Caps 9- 11 Nm
RJ_________________
97 XK8 86K mi
Intake Cam Caps should not be removed.

 

Torque values are primarily driven by fastener size, and material characterisitcs, not directly by the end use.

No, you do not need to remove the intake cam caps.

 

A great thread, but I can't seem to find the seminal piece on the tie down method. "2nd tensions DIY instructions FAQ" by sininnellen"

 

Here you go: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ion-how-37415/

 

Thank you. An hour after posting I found it. Now I have to decide whether to try on my own or let Checkered Flag do it (maybe I will gat lucky and find the previous owner had it done - can't be that lucky)!

Poring through this forum has been very educational: you have a lot more pros contributing than the Range Rover site.

Again thanks.

 

Hi When you replaced the rhs tensioner did the chain at the top seem loose. I have read that this could be that the tensioner is not primed with oil but I am not sure. The LH is very tight but the tensioner pushes upwards. Before I removed the 1st generation tensioner on the rhs it was tight. Any thoughts

 

Yes,you are right. That's why it's important to immobilize the fuel pump and turn the engine over until the oil light goes out before starting.