I think you totally missed my point.

What I was trying to say is not that the car is full of problems. I was trying to say there are bigger things to worry about than the engine IMO. The engine to me seems to be the least of the problems really.

But you seem to have understood I was complaining about how many problems the car has. I wasn't. Again I was just pointing out that if there is a weak link with the X100, I don't think it's the engine.

 

I think that's very different though.

Although I think it's still stupid. But being a packaged product I at least understand.

But putting a Chevy engine in a Jaguar car under the pretense that the Jaguar engine needs replacement because it's no good, and then sticking the word Jaguar on it makes no sense. Isn't the Jaguar engine "junk" and the mighty Chevy the holy grail? Wear the Chevy badge proudly then. Don't try to pose as a Jaguar.

I have seen a few different aftermarket covers for them. So there are options.

Besides, he could have still used the same cover and had LS1, LS6, Chevrolet etc stuck on it. At least it would be authentic. If he managed to stick Jaguar on a Chevy cover he is not limited to Corvette or GTO. He could have stuck LS1 or another Chevy brand if he wanted.

P.S. in the meantime, my main question is still being left unanswered.

 

Jaeger,


The motor isn't the problem other than the NA versions 290 HP isn't all that powerful by 2018 standards, not when LS based V6's are making 335 HP, but the sealed transmission is also a problem and the combo of the 2 plus the lack of tuning make it worth swapping out, especially if motor or trans or both has been lunched.


If the XK8 came with a 6 speed manual trans and 400 RWP and still could be bought for what we are paying for them (and not Porsche 911 money), few would be swapping in LS motors.


LS's are super easy to tune/make more power. There are off the shelf 500+ NA HP versions and displacements over 7 Litres. They only have one cam instead of 4, so cam swaps are relatively cheap/easy and the compact pushrod design makes them physically smaller and easier to work on/work around than DOHC designs (even with 3 more Litres of displacement).

 

LS swap people are not generally not "Chevy" people. They would no sooner put a Chevy logo on something than buy an actual Chevy.


The OP is an admitted Ford guy. He is probably the last person that wants a Chevy logo on his motor.


LS swap people have come to the grudging realization that the LS is the most compact/lightest/lowest cost/most tunable/most aftermarket support/highest HP V8 they can swap into a car. They don't like the fact that its a chevy motor, they just accept it.

 

Ok. If more power is the reason, then OK. I said it before I believe. But I just don't buy the reliability reasons. But cheaper power, of course the LS line is hard to beat. If power is the priority at the cost of anything else then a LS swap makes absolutely sense.

 

Ok, I understand. So just leave it nameless then. But sticking Jaguar on it reminds me of those people who make Lamborghini and Ferrari replicas and stick the Ferrari or Lamborghini logo on it. The person is just posing then. Leave the engine nameless. And when people ask, be honest. "Unfortunately it's a Chevy".

 

Jaegar,
most folks on this forum have been far too nice to you.
Please go away!
An

 

more important question.

what is the fuel economy like for one of these conversions? is the selective cylinder shutdown available with the LS electronics? this is a big deal for people who like to travel long distances. the large displacement/high fuel economy in the Corvette LS is achieved in this manner.

the conversion kit is probably one of the most thoroughly engineered solutions around and the manual conversion is quite an accomplishment. it deserves praise for that alone.

 

With 3.06 gears and a stock 5.7L, fuel economy on the highway would likely be mid to high 20's, like 23-28 mpg depending on speeds. I can't see it being any lower than the 4.0L based on how the corvette guys are always bragging about their fuel mileage.

4L60 auto is .70 in 4th vs. .80 for OD in the 5HP24

Manual MPG would be similar, but .50:1 6th with 3.06 might not be doable at speeds under 70 mph. I plan on putting aftermarket close ratio 5th and 6th in my T-56 as I did in my '86 Pontiac's T-56 and it has 3.25 rear gears.

 

That would definitely be a nice feature to have for those who use their X100 as a daily driver. But this is a feature in the Chevy LS right? Not in the Jaguar V8. Just making sure I understood.

Absolutely! If it's as a bolt on type of kit as it seems to be, it's indeed quite an accomplishment. I just wonder how hard is the pedal box conversion.

Even though I would not put another engine in a Jaguar, to me the main attraction would be manual gearbox.

 

Since you are in Austin, you're probably offended by my Chevy comment? Don't be so thin skinned. It was a joke based on Ungn saying many people who do the LS swap don't like the fact that its a chevy motor, they just accept it. It was tongue-in-cheek . I even went as far as using the tongue-in-cheek emoticon to show it was was a joke. I guess that's not good enough.

Even though here in Europe Chevy is basically seen as trash, I actually have nothing against Chevy and even owned a Camaro for a very short period of time. Yes, had to go through the usual jokes and burns for owning such car around here. But I enjoyed it.

 

That's just ignorant. You might be referring to the deal whereby Daihatsu's had been rebadged and sold as Chevrolets in Europe. It was enough to make them a few sales on the back of Chevrolet's bigger brand positioning, but don't be disingenous.

 

yes, and betraying my lack of knowledge, the Corvette electronics have the selective cylinder shutdown. is it possible to have this with the LS conversion. would imagine that functionality rides with the engine management that is carried over.

 

Well now isn't this the "little thread that could..."????

So this is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties and I've been following this thread for a while and it has definitely taken some interesting turns.

To follow up on the technical side, the later (Gen 4, starting approx 2005) LS engines do indeed have features to disable multiple cylinders under light load conditions. GM calls this "Active Fuel Management" (AFM) and/or "Displacement on Demand" (DOD) that helps improve fuel economy. These features came on line roughly the same time as the phase in of the 6L80E (6 speed automatic) transmissions in many GM cars.

And the answer to the question swirling around here now is yes, this can be incorporated into a Jaguar conversion . At this very moment we have in house a 1997 XK8 receiving a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT drivetrain, which includes the DOD/AFM features and also the 6-speed automatic. This engine is 6.0L, officially rated at 361 hp/385 lb-ft torque and the car should be a great package once complete. This drivetrain, when in a G8 itself with 2.92 diff ratio pushed that car from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and a quarter mile of 13.4. (and 24 mpg highway...). I would imagine even with our relatively lazy stock XK8 ratio of 3.08 that we could see possibly even better numbers. The G8 weighs in at 3955 lbs, so slightly heavier and easily less aerodynamic than the Jag ....

Thus far all has gone pretty well with the install and we are in the wiring phase currently. What's most interesting is the technical development of the LS control system as compared to the earlier (Gen3) LS engines we've used to date- they've really shrunk. The Gen4 ECM is actually about half the size of the Gen3 piece, and the transmission controller module (TCM) is actually buried in the trans itself. Very tidy. It may make for a lonely ECM compartment in the XK8 .

We'll have some new updates on the project on the website in the coming weeks. An introductory posting is already there, with a link on the front page-please have a look if you're interested...

Thanks,

Andrew

Jaguar Specialties

 

Believe me, not my words. Like I said I don't have anything against Chevy. Especially if you compare it to like priced brands, it's not that bad. But U.S. cars in general don't have the best reputation or image in most of Europe. And the Daihatsu fiasco really put Chevy in a bad spot. But again I'm not the one being unfair. You can't fight public perception with logic. It is what it is.

 

Europe doesn't have $2.30/gallon gas, so Europeans are pretty unfamiliar with the GM cars we drive in the US, at the prices we pay for them. You get the crap they sell in Europe, not the big V8's sold in the US, which is their bread and butter.

A 2018 1LE ZL1 Camaro or any C7 Corvette will pretty much lay waste to any European performance car less than $200K for what europeans pay for a mid level performance car... And because GM keeps Churning these things out year after year, the used market has the same cars with 15K-30K miles on them for 1/2 price.

 

I don't think you understand. Nobody cares if it can lay waste to even a Ferrari. It's not a Ferrari. Nobody thinks they are slow and nobody could care less really. At the risk of making this a U.S. vs European car thread, let me try to explain what the problem is. U.S. cars here have the reputation of being cheaply made, made with lots of plastic and being unrefined. It's not about the size of the engine. Sure a Corvette has a V8. But it's old tech etc. Unrefined. Unrefined inside too with lots of cheap fitting and plastic etc. The newest Corvette and Mustang seem to be much better. At least now the Mustang has a fully independent suspension. But if they will change the public perception of U.S. cars here in the future to come is still to be seen.

And you are wrong that only the junk is sold here. The new Mustang is now officially sold here by Ford and the old ones have always been imported. Same thing with the Corvette and Camaro. I had a V8 Camaro at one time here. Nobody cared that it was a big V8. I still had to go through silly jokes of cheap plastic car, gas guzzler, stone age car etc, depending who I was talking to, car enthusiast or normal person. How much did you pay for that? Oh, so you could have actually have bought a good car with that money. This type of thing. It's how it is.

It doesn't help much that they are not that much cheaper than the European models, as they are there. So to buy a U.S. car here you really need to be a fan.

If you want to know the opinion of basically any European car enthusiast who doesn't own a U.S. car you can just listen to the opinions of Jeremy Clarkson and other car reporters. That's basically it. When they make fun of the leaf spring suspension in the Corvette, the plastic interiors, the cheap seats, the finish and fitting etc. This is basically the image the cars have here.

I have a few friends who live in California and by what they tell me it's the same thing there too. If you drive a U.S. car in California you are a bit of a loser. Everybody wants an import. Can't say this is accurate. But it seems everybody wants European or Japanese there.

There is a god following for U.S. cars here but it's mainly focused on the classic cars from the 50's, 60's 70's. There are a few who buy new ones but they are far and in between. The same thing is true with Japanese or Asian cars, in a lesser degree. In the U.S. they basically outsell the domestic cars. Here they have no chance. Sure Kia and Hyundai sell ok. They are cheap cars. You also see the eventual Honda and Toyota. Quite a few Mazdas etc. But they don't have a very solid hold like they do in the U.S. and the luxury ones like Lexus, Infinity and Acura have no hold on the market here. Nothing. Nobody will buy them when you can buy Jaguars, Mercedes, BMWs etc.

So it doesn't matter what I think. There is a public perception. And it has nothing to do with the gas prices. There is no U.S. V12 in production and there are quite a few here, as well as V10 and a million V8s. The problem is not gas prices. The problem is that they have the image of cheaply made and unrefined cars. And that we have so many other better options, at least in the eyes of the buyers. There is a reason GM has never tried to sell Cadillac here in the modern era. It means nothing here. It wouldn't be any more prestigious than Lexus.

Interestingly though, Ford has a much better image than GM and Chrysler here. A Mustang is probably the only U.S. car which normal people would recognize the name of and that car fans would find cool. But it's the same thing with the local Fords. They have a slightly better image then their GM counterparts which is or was Opel. Although Opel now no longer belongs to GM. It belongs to the French. GM seems to have all but given up on the European market. It's hard for them to compete here.

Please understand this is not my personal opinion. I'm just relaying my experience based on what I see and hear locally and especially from petrolhead friends. I must add this disclaimer because some people get offended pretty easily around here.

 

They are "cheaply made" because they are cheap. Europeans pay a premium for US cars.

If we had had to pay what europeans pay for cars and gas, we would all say how much American cars "suck".

When Europeans move to America, American cars are instantly the greatest cars in the world, because they finally understand what they couldn't living in Europe.

 

I would say the only difference is that the cars would be cheaper there. Because what other difference would it be? If you are still hanging on gas prices as being a problem, keep in mind people drive Jaguars, Mercedes, BMWs, Audis and other cars with big engines here on a daily basis.

I understand where the perception comes from though. The other day I was riding in a X5 and had to move to a Grand Cherokee once we pulled over at a gas station. Coming out of the X5 and getting straight into the Jeep was a startling downgrade in general atmosphere. Even when you consider the Jeep costs less you still can't shake that in your face feeling with just logic.

 

sometimes it is not the ultimate numbers (0 to 60, HP, g-forces, etc.) but the execution. drive some performance cars which have numbers lower than the newest Corvette (which i have driven.) and then decide what you can live with and actually enjoy. yes, some very high performance cars such as the Corvette have become essentially track cars. they are very impressive, but a Porsche is just nicer to actually own and use on reasonable, real roads. some European supercars are actually usable off track and even at similar price points to American supercars are more refined.

regarding the whole fuel economy and engine size and cost of fuel debate. it is a basic rule that being forced to do with less leads to innovation. Europeans also had a much less consumerist society and overall are quite conservative in their early industrialization history. there was always an appreciation of quality and the expectation of items to last longer. Europeans have a history of keeping cars on the road much longer than Americans. combining the two factors leads to innovation. America once shared this same mentality having common heritage. once we hit our post war boom, this was lost. i know former GM executives of the time and they freely admit that they wanted a three year replacement cycle and were unconcerned with longer model life cycle. combine cheap fuel and there was an incentive to just enlarge the engine until we arrived at the insanity of the late 1960's. prior to this, the Chevrolet small block was innovative for its time and should be respected. American consumers as late as the early fifties and long before were very much concerned with fuel economy as part of the value equation. this all stopped and the American cars simply stopped innovating much during the boom times. yes, there were refinements, but not core competency. mostly they sold technological and luxury gimmicks and style over substance.

when our fuel costs and economic crises hit in the USA and related countries, there was no internal competency at the car companies to meet the challenge other than to languish and apply semi-thought-out fixes with their own issues. it is like the obese lazy person who has to learn how to do physical labor overnight out of necessity facing a life-long laborer who is able to eat simple meals and work like a machine day after day.

the American companies are always hoping for the next big thing that leads to a boom as opposed to long term competency and quality that Europeans have done for years. the Americans jump from cheap fuel, patriotism, finance games, cheap fuel massive SUV's, on board tech, and now computer control. the underlying quality and engineering is always an afterthought for the reasons above. they want to follow the market herd. when the Europeans forget their roots and struggles, they will find that themselves caught in the same trap.