Finally getting the little details wrapped up on the LS Chevy swap
#81
04-05-2018, 10:48 AM
Senior Member
forgot to mention that we have a habit here in the USA of bailing out (our words) failing large institutions instead of making them eat their mistakes. even when they go bankrupt, we bend and break the law so that it is not done correctly. in the British Isles the failing companies were sold off, not continually bailed out. our Chrysler should have been a memory of the 1980's and GM should have been a proper liquidation and settling of bondholders and debts. when you remove failure from consequences you get more of the same.
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Jeagar (04-16-2018)
#82
04-16-2018, 04:16 AM
sometimes it is not the ultimate numbers (0 to 60, HP, g-forces, etc.) but the execution. drive some performance cars which have numbers lower than the newest Corvette (which i have driven.) and then decide what you can live with and actually enjoy. yes, some very high performance cars such as the Corvette have become essentially track cars. they are very impressive, but a Porsche is just nicer to actually own and use on reasonable, real roads. some European supercars are actually usable off track and even at similar price points to American supercars are more refined.
regarding the whole fuel economy and engine size and cost of fuel debate. it is a basic rule that being forced to do with less leads to innovation. Europeans also had a much less consumerist society and overall are quite conservative in their early industrialization history. there was always an appreciation of quality and the expectation of items to last longer. Europeans have a history of keeping cars on the road much longer than Americans. combining the two factors leads to innovation. America once shared this same mentality having common heritage. once we hit our post war boom, this was lost. i know former GM executives of the time and they freely admit that they wanted a three year replacement cycle and were unconcerned with longer model life cycle. combine cheap fuel and there was an incentive to just enlarge the engine until we arrived at the insanity of the late 1960's. prior to this, the Chevrolet small block was innovative for its time and should be respected. American consumers as late as the early fifties and long before were very much concerned with fuel economy as part of the value equation. this all stopped and the American cars simply stopped innovating much during the boom times. yes, there were refinements, but not core competency. mostly they sold technological and luxury gimmicks and style over substance.
when our fuel costs and economic crises hit in the USA and related countries, there was no internal competency at the car companies to meet the challenge other than to languish and apply semi-thought-out fixes with their own issues. it is like the obese lazy person who has to learn how to do physical labor overnight out of necessity facing a life-long laborer who is able to eat simple meals and work like a machine day after day.
the American companies are always hoping for the next big thing that leads to a boom as opposed to long term competency and quality that Europeans have done for years. the Americans jump from cheap fuel, patriotism, finance games, cheap fuel massive SUV's, on board tech, and now computer control. the underlying quality and engineering is always an afterthought for the reasons above. they want to follow the market herd. when the Europeans forget their roots and struggles, they will find that themselves caught in the same trap.
regarding the whole fuel economy and engine size and cost of fuel debate. it is a basic rule that being forced to do with less leads to innovation. Europeans also had a much less consumerist society and overall are quite conservative in their early industrialization history. there was always an appreciation of quality and the expectation of items to last longer. Europeans have a history of keeping cars on the road much longer than Americans. combining the two factors leads to innovation. America once shared this same mentality having common heritage. once we hit our post war boom, this was lost. i know former GM executives of the time and they freely admit that they wanted a three year replacement cycle and were unconcerned with longer model life cycle. combine cheap fuel and there was an incentive to just enlarge the engine until we arrived at the insanity of the late 1960's. prior to this, the Chevrolet small block was innovative for its time and should be respected. American consumers as late as the early fifties and long before were very much concerned with fuel economy as part of the value equation. this all stopped and the American cars simply stopped innovating much during the boom times. yes, there were refinements, but not core competency. mostly they sold technological and luxury gimmicks and style over substance.
when our fuel costs and economic crises hit in the USA and related countries, there was no internal competency at the car companies to meet the challenge other than to languish and apply semi-thought-out fixes with their own issues. it is like the obese lazy person who has to learn how to do physical labor overnight out of necessity facing a life-long laborer who is able to eat simple meals and work like a machine day after day.
the American companies are always hoping for the next big thing that leads to a boom as opposed to long term competency and quality that Europeans have done for years. the Americans jump from cheap fuel, patriotism, finance games, cheap fuel massive SUV's, on board tech, and now computer control. the underlying quality and engineering is always an afterthought for the reasons above. they want to follow the market herd. when the Europeans forget their roots and struggles, they will find that themselves caught in the same trap.
Very honest and open minded write up.
#83
04-16-2018, 04:22 AM
forgot to mention that we have a habit here in the USA of bailing out (our words) failing large institutions instead of making them eat their mistakes. even when they go bankrupt, we bend and break the law so that it is not done correctly. in the British Isles the failing companies were sold off, not continually bailed out. our Chrysler should have been a memory of the 1980's and GM should have been a proper liquidation and settling of bondholders and debts. when you remove failure from consequences you get more of the same.
Indeed you are right on the money about the British companies. I think the only British car maker which is still British owned is Morgan. I might be wrong but I think so. Ok, I think TVR is now back in British hands after being Russian owned for a while.
#84
04-16-2018, 07:06 AM
I never dreamed this thread would be so lively....
I posted about our swap because I was quite proud of the finished product and because I wanted to brag on Jaguar Specialties. Nothing more, nothing less.
There are are some who take exception to our little half breed. You're entitled to that. On the other hand I have offered an open invitation to any of you to come see this car and go for a ride. I think you'd grow to love these mutations more than you realize.
I wont get into USA versus European, Japan, blah blah blah. That argument is a fools errand. I can tell you the Jaguar engine in our car was junk, so we made a change more to our liking for a lot of reasons. I would have preferred a Ford Coyote power plant but it just won't fit without extensive chassis modifications.
Lots of fun will be had with this car for decades to come because of this swap. That sure beats feeding it to the crusher which is where it was headed.
There are are some who take exception to our little half breed. You're entitled to that. On the other hand I have offered an open invitation to any of you to come see this car and go for a ride. I think you'd grow to love these mutations more than you realize.
I wont get into USA versus European, Japan, blah blah blah. That argument is a fools errand. I can tell you the Jaguar engine in our car was junk, so we made a change more to our liking for a lot of reasons. I would have preferred a Ford Coyote power plant but it just won't fit without extensive chassis modifications.
Lots of fun will be had with this car for decades to come because of this swap. That sure beats feeding it to the crusher which is where it was headed.
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#85
04-17-2018, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
I posted about our swap because I was quite proud of the finished product and because I wanted to brag on Jaguar Specialties. Nothing more, nothing less.
There are are some who take exception to our little half breed. You're entitled to that. On the other hand I have offered an open invitation to any of you to come see this car and go for a ride. I think you'd grow to love these mutations more than you realize.
I wont get into USA versus European, Japan, blah blah blah. That argument is a fools errand. I can tell you the Jaguar engine in our car was junk, so we made a change more to our liking for a lot of reasons. I would have preferred a Ford Coyote power plant but it just won't fit without extensive chassis modifications.
Lots of fun will be had with this car for decades to come because of this swap. That sure beats feeding it to the crusher which is where it was headed.
There are are some who take exception to our little half breed. You're entitled to that. On the other hand I have offered an open invitation to any of you to come see this car and go for a ride. I think you'd grow to love these mutations more than you realize.
I wont get into USA versus European, Japan, blah blah blah. That argument is a fools errand. I can tell you the Jaguar engine in our car was junk, so we made a change more to our liking for a lot of reasons. I would have preferred a Ford Coyote power plant but it just won't fit without extensive chassis modifications.
Lots of fun will be had with this car for decades to come because of this swap. That sure beats feeding it to the crusher which is where it was headed.
taste differences also exist among the model run itself as some prefer the lines with or without the body kit. some like the 4.0 over the 4.2 or SC or NA, etc. it is fun to know why and even if in a particular model appreciate the positive changes in later models as further expression of the engineering refinements.
now for my preference of a fun swap. it would be nice to engineer a kit that allowed integration of the later versions of our engine from the XK model keeping all electronics present and in harmony. or for the much older Jaguars that had to be lumped in an earlier time, upgrading to the later XK engine. yes, i have a project in mind, one day.
the human creativity must be honored as without it our cars would not even exist.
#86
04-17-2018, 01:44 PM
I can't take credit
I cannot take the credit for the install. Robert Lee at NWA Steetworks did the hard part. He's a lot smaller, younger and smarter than I am. He is the brains behind the install of a spectacularly engineered kit. I paid the bills and sourced the parts. That's about it.
Id love to post pictures of a friends 1967 ? Jaguar Coupe but I'm afraid the purist folks would come undone. From the exteriorvthe car looks box stock, wire wheels and all. But when one lifts the hood on this car he will find an honest to gosh 427 SOHC Ford motor living between the fenders. The car is a monster and when it starts, the ground trembles. One of these days I'll post a few photos of that one.
I still want to build a Coyote powered XK Coupe. I'll have to fab up a front stub with aftermarket front suspension. Not a big deal at all as I owned a speed shop for years and did most of our fabrication. I'll build it one of these days without all the comforts found in a modern Jaguar. No carpet, no cushy seats, no a/c etc. Just toggle switches and push buttons. Loud and violent with a modern look.
Id love to post pictures of a friends 1967 ? Jaguar Coupe but I'm afraid the purist folks would come undone. From the exteriorvthe car looks box stock, wire wheels and all. But when one lifts the hood on this car he will find an honest to gosh 427 SOHC Ford motor living between the fenders. The car is a monster and when it starts, the ground trembles. One of these days I'll post a few photos of that one.
I still want to build a Coyote powered XK Coupe. I'll have to fab up a front stub with aftermarket front suspension. Not a big deal at all as I owned a speed shop for years and did most of our fabrication. I'll build it one of these days without all the comforts found in a modern Jaguar. No carpet, no cushy seats, no a/c etc. Just toggle switches and push buttons. Loud and violent with a modern look.
#87
04-17-2018, 10:35 PM
Senior Member
I cannot take the credit for the install. Robert Lee at NWA Steetworks did the hard part. He's a lot smaller, younger and smarter than I am. He is the brains behind the install of a spectacularly engineered kit. I paid the bills and sourced the parts. That's about it.
Id love to post pictures of a friends 1967 ? Jaguar Coupe but I'm afraid the purist folks would come undone. From the exteriorvthe car looks box stock, wire wheels and all. But when one lifts the hood on this car he will find an honest to gosh 427 SOHC Ford motor living between the fenders. The car is a monster and when it starts, the ground trembles. One of these days I'll post a few photos of that one.
I still want to build a Coyote powered XK Coupe. I'll have to fab up a front stub with aftermarket front suspension. Not a big deal at all as I owned a speed shop for years and did most of our fabrication. I'll build it one of these days without all the comforts found in a modern Jaguar. No carpet, no cushy seats, no a/c etc. Just toggle switches and push buttons. Loud and violent with a modern look.
Id love to post pictures of a friends 1967 ? Jaguar Coupe but I'm afraid the purist folks would come undone. From the exteriorvthe car looks box stock, wire wheels and all. But when one lifts the hood on this car he will find an honest to gosh 427 SOHC Ford motor living between the fenders. The car is a monster and when it starts, the ground trembles. One of these days I'll post a few photos of that one.
I still want to build a Coyote powered XK Coupe. I'll have to fab up a front stub with aftermarket front suspension. Not a big deal at all as I owned a speed shop for years and did most of our fabrication. I'll build it one of these days without all the comforts found in a modern Jaguar. No carpet, no cushy seats, no a/c etc. Just toggle switches and push buttons. Loud and violent with a modern look.
#88
04-17-2018, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
Jagolet
Great job. Great car. Your car Your way. No justification required. Whereas most posters on this site are very generous with their knowledge, some have ordained themselves as soothsayers of all things right and proper, and for someone to modify or personalize THEIR XK8 from how it came from the factory is blasphemous. Where
I don't always agree with some fellow XK8 owners' mods, I do appreciate their creativity and willingness to share without fear of judgement. I have modified my XK8 in many ways that would make the purists squirm, but it's uniquely mine and keeps the love alive.
No one on this sight is into their XK8 any more than I, but I will promise you when the mill finally gives it up (currently 180,000 mi meticulously maintained)as a daily driver, I will be dropping in a modified LS power plant in a New York minute. Thanks again for sharing your experience with us. We have 3 other Jags in our family-2 of them stock, and one (89 XJS)with a dynoed 434 small block at 500hp and 600 ft lbs of torque at 4200 rpm. Can't wait to experience comparable power in the XK8!
Great job. Great car. Your car Your way. No justification required. Whereas most posters on this site are very generous with their knowledge, some have ordained themselves as soothsayers of all things right and proper, and for someone to modify or personalize THEIR XK8 from how it came from the factory is blasphemous. Where
I don't always agree with some fellow XK8 owners' mods, I do appreciate their creativity and willingness to share without fear of judgement. I have modified my XK8 in many ways that would make the purists squirm, but it's uniquely mine and keeps the love alive.
No one on this sight is into their XK8 any more than I, but I will promise you when the mill finally gives it up (currently 180,000 mi meticulously maintained)as a daily driver, I will be dropping in a modified LS power plant in a New York minute. Thanks again for sharing your experience with us. We have 3 other Jags in our family-2 of them stock, and one (89 XJS)with a dynoed 434 small block at 500hp and 600 ft lbs of torque at 4200 rpm. Can't wait to experience comparable power in the XK8!
#89
04-18-2018, 12:15 AM
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there are plenty of e types with non standard engines, AKA "Lumps", that's not news to anyone. Transplanting engines of different make will always be attractive to some, and ridiculous to most. One thing is certain, whether you're talking about the XKE, or XK8, it's a sure way to devalue the car.
Z
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Jeagar (04-19-2018)
#90
04-18-2018, 03:06 AM
there are plenty of e types with non standard engines, AKA "Lumps", that's not news to anyone. Transplanting engines of different make will always be attractive to some, and ridiculous to most. One thing is certain, whether you're talking about the XKE, or XK8, it's a sure way to devalue the car.
Z
Z
And its not as if the Jaguar V8 in the XK8s is some sort of legendary engine, with a distinctive howl that people pay extra just to listen to. Jaguar deliberately made it as smooth and quiet as possible, so much so that people like myself have added aftermarket exhausts to actually get a V8 noise out of the thing. I really don't think that has devalued the car as it is no longer an original exhaust either.
#91
04-18-2018, 08:27 AM
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Value is a funny thing. It varies from person to person, and from era to era. in the 1970's and 1980's when I had my e types, you couldn't give away a Lump (Lump = Jag with non standard engine).. so I'd peg the saleable value at zero back then. Of course there might have been some enjoyment value, which could last until you try to unload that sucker....then the fun aspect starts to diminish with that albatross sitting in the driveway. Nowadays you can easily sell an e-type lump, at a reduced price, because they're worth enoughto make to viable to spend the $$$ to source a correct engine.
Back to the XK8's, if one needs an engine, the value is indeed quite low. Maybe not zero, but low. If you put a Chevy or Ford engine in one the resale value is going to be zero with most people, because most buyers don't want a Jaguar Lump of any era. A minority of buyers might think it attractive, and those people will pay something. So yes, the car does have some "fun value" for the guy that thought it a great idea to do the transplant. But sooner or later he'll want to sell. That's going to take longer due to the reduced pool of buyers, and he's still likely not get all his investment back.
That means to me that any talk of value has to be confined to whatever enjoyment can be had from the Frankenstein car, and don't be counting on easily finding a buyer that is willing to pay as much you'd like. A good vanity tag might read "UNDRH2O"
Z
Back to the XK8's, if one needs an engine, the value is indeed quite low. Maybe not zero, but low. If you put a Chevy or Ford engine in one the resale value is going to be zero with most people, because most buyers don't want a Jaguar Lump of any era. A minority of buyers might think it attractive, and those people will pay something. So yes, the car does have some "fun value" for the guy that thought it a great idea to do the transplant. But sooner or later he'll want to sell. That's going to take longer due to the reduced pool of buyers, and he's still likely not get all his investment back.
That means to me that any talk of value has to be confined to whatever enjoyment can be had from the Frankenstein car, and don't be counting on easily finding a buyer that is willing to pay as much you'd like. A good vanity tag might read "UNDRH2O"
Z
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Jeagar (04-19-2018)
#94
04-18-2018, 12:38 PM
Like anything else these are our cars and, at least for now (that'll change shortly) we are allowed to modify them if we want. Since I'm doing an XKE engine swap car now, I know sacrilege right? I'm up to my armpits in this. But I started with a car that had an 1970s era 327 swap already with no reasonable chance of going back to stock so, perhaps I can be forgiven. But the Sunbeam Tiger and Cobra are basically engine swaps at scale and, if you want a car that is really reliable and still 20+ years old plus has decent power the swap is a far easier way to get there. The XK8s/Rs have really low resale anyway so it isn't as if you are burning money any more than if you bought an exotic. Was watching the auctions and depreciation on current generation exotics, with some exceptions, is painful. I was looking at Maybach's, you can buy a decent 2011 for under $140K, new it was nearly $500K. Even my F-Type which cost new $110K back in 2014 could be bought now used with low mileage for under $60K, and it is doubtful with the roll to electrics and autonomous vehicles it'll ever go up much in value.
It really depends if you are buying a car for investment, which really isn't a good idea right now, or buying it to enjoy. It's not like you can take the money with you and as long as you have a good time and can afford it, it is probably the best "end justifies the means" project you'll ever do. I like having something no one else has, other folks like to focus on keeping their cars stock. We're lucky to still have the privilege of choice. My own XKR is about as different as they get, sadly I didn't do an engine swap (too new for the Jaguar Specialties kit) but, to me, it is awesome. And really that is the point, as long as the effort was worth it to you, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. By the way my long term plan on the XKE is to take it electric, but the damn kit from Jaguar is at least two years out and I wanted to drive the car in the meantime.
It really depends if you are buying a car for investment, which really isn't a good idea right now, or buying it to enjoy. It's not like you can take the money with you and as long as you have a good time and can afford it, it is probably the best "end justifies the means" project you'll ever do. I like having something no one else has, other folks like to focus on keeping their cars stock. We're lucky to still have the privilege of choice. My own XKR is about as different as they get, sadly I didn't do an engine swap (too new for the Jaguar Specialties kit) but, to me, it is awesome. And really that is the point, as long as the effort was worth it to you, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. By the way my long term plan on the XKE is to take it electric, but the damn kit from Jaguar is at least two years out and I wanted to drive the car in the meantime.
#95
04-18-2018, 01:14 PM
Senior Member
Rob miss seeing your XKR around the Bay Area. Your efforts inspired me to further personalize my own car. It is listers like yourself that I was referencing as willing to mod your car and share with others. Please keep us apprised of your XKE. Don't recall you asking for opinions or permission from the group in the past and don't expect you will moving forward...Thankfully. All ahead full and damn the torpedos
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enderle (04-19-2018)
#96
04-18-2018, 04:36 PM
Veteran Member
If I had a RARE car that needed restoring, OH I DO. Now that '49 has cost me more than you can imagine keeping it stock. Wonderful right, WRONG. I either have to trailer or drive on back roads to shows. I'm so proud of her and all who see her love it.
The temptation to add a small V6 or V8 with a cut down rear, add A/C, the list goes on.
I and my wife could enjoy the car much more, so don't say that keeping originality is the best thing. I bet the next person to own this car with a 455 rear end and top speed of 65 and even then the engine is screaming.
Our Jags are beautiful cars and thanks to this forum, many many are on the road that would be in a junk yard. Just think of the number that were repaired for under $2000 that we helped a individual fix that someone would have let the car go and lost a large amount of money, but now enjoy there car. That's why we brought them, right.
If you don't like a discussion or thread, don't click on the damn thing, your opinion might not really matter in this case.
Sorry, I might be wrong about that, come on in and give a voice, but don't keep beating a dead horse in a matter that others are enjoying.
Wayne
The temptation to add a small V6 or V8 with a cut down rear, add A/C, the list goes on.
I and my wife could enjoy the car much more, so don't say that keeping originality is the best thing. I bet the next person to own this car with a 455 rear end and top speed of 65 and even then the engine is screaming.
Our Jags are beautiful cars and thanks to this forum, many many are on the road that would be in a junk yard. Just think of the number that were repaired for under $2000 that we helped a individual fix that someone would have let the car go and lost a large amount of money, but now enjoy there car. That's why we brought them, right.
If you don't like a discussion or thread, don't click on the damn thing, your opinion might not really matter in this case.
Sorry, I might be wrong about that, come on in and give a voice, but don't keep beating a dead horse in a matter that others are enjoying.
Wayne
#97
04-18-2018, 05:10 PM
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Z.
#98
04-18-2018, 05:42 PM
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#99
04-19-2018, 03:30 AM
I can understand why an electric vehicle would make an oil company executive or a Saudi prince puke, but for the rest of us, it seems like a brilliant solution to still being able to have a very fast car which we can re-fuel using solar panels on our roofs.
Even if petrol engined vehicles aren't banned completely, its unlikely we will be able to drive them in cities and urban areas due to air quality, so an electric conversion is going to be the way to keep these cars going.
I for one am looking forward to not having to go to the petrol station ever again.
Even if petrol engined vehicles aren't banned completely, its unlikely we will be able to drive them in cities and urban areas due to air quality, so an electric conversion is going to be the way to keep these cars going.
I for one am looking forward to not having to go to the petrol station ever again.
#100
04-19-2018, 07:58 AM
As you say, maybe in the U.S. Here in Europe it would devalue the car for sure. Imagine buying a Corvette with a Toyota engine. Who would want that?