Good morning all you 🐈 lovers...

I can't believe I'm doing this. Honestly don't know how to approach this. One step at a time might be best. So here goes. Sorry to DUMP so much.

A little back story. There's a guy who lives near me that has a *habit* of buying European sports cars on auction, and has them delivered to his house. Usually not running, in need of LOTS of love and attention. Although I think he's nutts, he and I have become something like friends, cars as out common interest. My 1990 XJS Convertible, 2002 XK8 and 86 Porsche 928 (and an old Honda Goldwing) have all come from him and, "The Yard"... He doesn't drive, doesn't have a license - you can't make this stuff up.

Anyways, he has a 2003 XKR SC Convertible and I am already in love with this thing... Love to hate! Thin line.

It was in a fresh water flood and I am fairly confident water did not go above the center console, stereo, line. I could be wrong. But foolishly maybe, believe I am right.

I have begun 2 threads but thought I should try and consolidate all of this into one for ease of use. I like to make separate threads titled by ISSUE so others might be able to use the forum more effectively when they search. Either with browser or the forum itself. But this is going to be a hard thing I think, so, for my sake, I'll keep it all in one place.

The alternator has been replaced...

I have only been working on it (lacking courage) with a fairly powerful battery "Jumper" that when fully charged will supply a good 12+ volts for a pretty long time. I am fearful to install a hard wired bolting in battery at this point for fear of not being able to disconnect it quickly. The "jumper" is connected to hanging battery cables. NOW, I think I am closer to being confident enough to hook up a battery and jumper on my next go round. This Saturday most likely.

So far: I have been working on things for 2 days or so.
- No blown fuses found yet, but they are nasty/crusty and I plan to replace them all.
- I have removed and then reset every relay. I need to go back and test them individually maybe, but strangely they looked clean and un-effected by the presence of h20..
- Dash lights up. Fuel level reads 1/2 tank. I've seen evidence of life in the dash module.
- All exterior light systems work with stalk.
Stereo works (display is dead but I can hear music thru speakers).
- HVAC system seems to work (I get an ERR message when the system is in the off position and I connect the power supply,,, but that goes off after a sec,,, or when I hit the power button. Fans turn and can vary thru speeds and (I think) it will cycle thru vent settings. Defrost,,, face level, foot area, etc...
- Brake lights work.
- Interior lights work and will respond to door opening and dim out when doors are closed.
- If I key the door, locks will lock but not both. If I HOLD key in the lock position I will get that high pitched BEEP telling me that something is unsecured. Alarm WILL NOT "set" though. Turning key to unlock, front windows will go down (not quarters roof/hood system is in parts) which is a good sign.
- THE KICKER - the Security Module is from a DONOR car. Original was fried... I REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS as a serious trouble spot.

So far, much to do with the BPM seems to be working-ish. This makes me happy.

Tried reading the ECU/M with a simple Torque OBD2. Cannot connect to the ECU? Have no idea why...?

Dash display reads:
- DCS System Fault
- Limiter Not Available - I have NO idea what that even means
- CRUISE CONTROL not available
- GEAR BOX FAULT - J-Gate has settled down some but now, only P, N, R will light up, D and 1, 2, 3 , 4 and 5 will not. Red dot blinks sometimes. I think neutral switch was effected by h20,,, I took some things apart yesterday I will need help with.
- Doors, Boot, Bonnet Open... When they are open,,, no indication when closed, which is good Body Module news.
- Restricted Performance.

lol,,,, I think thats "IT",,,,, OMG!!!

SO,,,, this next thing could really be allllll about the SLCModule...? The car will not crank or turn over. The key cycles, will go into position III, but allllll I get is a soft clicking under the RH dash. Dash lights go out with key turned all the way - as if when it should be cranking. It sounds like the BPModule is making a sound and then, something else under the dash on the RH kick panel area. I can't see or feel what's clicking. I have 12v at the the power side of the relay, and voltage at the control side. I don't think it's getting the ground signal to the control side to power the starter. Starter WILL spin when directly jumped. If I jumper the relay 30/87 the starter will spin.

Maybe I should try and inspect and super clean the old SLCModule!? I know it was under water.

- Is there anything I can do to BY PASS Exciter ring for the key? Would that matter?
- Does anyone know exactly where the Key Transponder/module is?
- Is the ONLY thing that will bring me farther to do with reprogramming the SLCM?

Please tell me ANYTHING that comes to mind. I am all ears and super grateful! No doubt!

If there is ANYTHING that I can clarify or try to state better (my experience is limited compared to many of y'all) I will try.

This is the only picture I have of the car... And a few of the BPM... Looks clean, I guess. Lol,,, I don't mean the car 😅😂😆😃😅

I'll drop some photos of the ECM/U as soon as I can.













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Your recent project has quite high requirements on OBD skills and i think you will be lost without an OEM WDS/SDD tool.

Good luck, Fritz

 

You are so so so so right! I am still concerned about the OBD-II gizmo not reaching and communicating with the ECM... could this simply be a power issue? At the time I was still afraid to just jam in a battery and tighten up the cables.

I want and need an IDS setup... I'll ask you since I have ya,,,, I posted about this the other day,,,, for my needs - will the British Diagnostic tool do? $130Bucks... I mean, I don't do this for a living... Ummm, I don't think I do, lol

 

You're absolutely on the right way with you approach. I would recommend a stable voltage supply in the range of at least 12.6 up to 13.5 volt whenever diagnosis is performed. Leave a i.e CETEK charger or similar connected while doing OBD.
And BD is a good source, if you consider a lack in communication and delievery in time.

Fritz

 

Understood Fritz! Thank you. I have been looking at dedicated power supplies BUT was wondering about correct amps,,, or does it matter?

In terms of amp capacity,,, it changes the cost considerably (I'm not a rich man, lol) and with what now might be 3 jags and a Porsche - I have to pinch every penny...

What is right for amps when the car is not running and testing? 12.7 to 13 something volts and 10, 20, 30 amps?

Please advise

 

A few for starters

Battery voltage: - what is the voltage across the battery terminals with everything turned off? Should be around 12.6V. I would just put a known-good battery in there to eliminate any battery state quirks. Certainly hook up a CTEK or similar if it's an option.

Did you replace the SLM or has someone been in there before you? I'm almost certain that it plays no part in starting - only remote fob operation. The car also won't crank if it doesn't think it is in Park or Neutral - microswitches around the shifter are a possibility. Did you check out Gus' no-start procedure?

The exciter ring needs to be working as it sends a message to the key (and receives its response) as part of the start operation. From the 98 intro description, but still valid:
"
Engine Immobilization
A key transponder control module (KTCM) installed in the fascia is linked to the BPM, the ECM and a reader/exciter coil around the ignition switch. The KTCM is programmed to recognize a uniquely coded transponder in the head of each key supplied with the vehicle.

When a key is installed in the ignition switch and turned to position "I" (auxiliary), the KTCM uses the reader/exciter coil to read the transponder code.

When the key is turned to position "II" (ignition), the KTCM exchanges signals with the BPM and ECM and, if the key is valid, fuelling, ignition and cranking functions are enabled to allow the engine to start when the key is turned to position "III" (crank).

If the key is invalid, the fuelling, ignition and cranking functions are inhibited and the engine cannot be started.
"

Post up pics of both sides of the ECM & old SLM

The OBD plug has a separate fuse (F13 5A driver side fascia fusebox) for the B+ connection on pin 16. Check it's OK as your reader might draw its power from that pin.

Key transponder module is difficult to get to, apparently. See this thread of Beav's:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...29/#post509705

and Finally,
Hardly surprising with 3 jags and a Porsche to support

edit: crank position (iii) temporarily disables some of the auxiliary circuits during startup. That may be the clicking you hear.

 

Maaannnnn,,, let me THANK YOU! Thank you, Michael!

While knowing there are no guarantees....This new info will allow for sleep, lol... That the security system is not involved in the start up procedure (blocking it) - as I assumed.

I'll come back to this,,, you offered a lot here,,, I'm at work now.

And, this will prove just how dumb I is, lol... I've been looking at this diagram, thinking to think how I would approach chasing down electrical issues and such, and I NEVER noticed the the LCM and security system was not in the diagram....

 

And,,,, the damn alternator was underwater... I need to get under there.

I am completely grateful to y'all. I really really am. Thank you!

 

Quoting my OWN post, 😅😃😆😂!!!!

This shouldn't matter. I spun the starter JUMPERING the starter relay thru "right" channels. At least from the point of the relay thru to the starter. This is a good starter, then. Good! Am I thinking about this correctly? I def have my doubts these days, haha...

 

Just getting the starter to spin is not going to complete the procedure. You need to get it to engage the engine. If corrosion on the bendix shaft is freezing it up, there in lies a problem and requires you to get it out and clean it up, if nothing else.

 

Thanks.. The starter engages the flywheel and the engine spins nicely... Bootleg style. Just not with the key turn...

 

Hey Michael... I can't multi quote on my phone. I will try to touch on each of your points.

I will be sending pictures! I might go grab the SCLM on my way home from work tonight.

I will have a NEW battery Saturday and some kind of tender as I mess around this weekend... Feels like a long time to wait, lol...

I messed around with and cleaned out the neutral switch. Had it plugged, removed from the JGate assembly, and set in what is Park and Neutral on its slide. Still nothing.

I do get a small blinking light running on the top front corner of the JGATE assembly. Sometimes the gear lights blink as well.

And, yes there was someone in there before me. The owner of "the yard" is a complete menace... Thought I was bad? This guy works on cars with a machete and a pitchfork, OMG... But, the "borrowed" SCLM from another car, just wanting to see what might happen - that's all meee.... I will experiment with it with the wrong SLCModule for a little bit more. It's GOOD to know (you and a member on JagLovers have me convinced) that the SCLM won't stop the starter from working, which is good. That's mission one. The starter issue (if issues can be separated)...

Then,,, most definitely, I am going to get the OE SCLM, get some 90% isopropyl and a chip brush and work on it some to clean it up and retry... It's hard to know what is and isn't functioning properly. Which sucks. The guy from Jag Lovers says that when he was having his problem, just from turning the key to full start, there was no real way of knowing that the key was not being read as valid,,, and that from the perspective of turning the key,,, with the way things lit up, sounded and came online in positions i, ii and ,iii you really can't tell that's what is going on, if you know what I mean...?

I plan on spending the entire day chasing down and cleaning connections, doing some limited electrical tests and poking and prodding at the modules, fuses, lines and relays involved in the start up senerios... I have 100 new and various fuses. I will replace them all Saturday.... It's not much really but very mysterious to someone who is as limited in electrical understanding as I am. Yet, I am unafraid. I want to wait to begin ordering the BD SSD/IDS equipment until I know with little doubt it is needed.

I did read the 98 no start write-up by Gus, but it seemed mostly to do with what might be going on WITH the starter engaging the fly and engine, a bit about the key and recognition... I wish I was as far as that. Let me go back and take another look.

Oh and yes,,,, my obd did light up, seemed to be going thru it's usual connection procedures, and stuff. All of this might be for not IF the power supply fluctuations and supply are so substandard and irregular. I hope to cure that with a good battery and low amp charger hookup this weekend!

Onwards!!!

Thank you MUCH for the leads and all your focused suggestions! Really! It matters!

 

This poor dude...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ailable-74795/

How we both got to this point is very very different BUT,,,, almost exactly,,, I get all of the same messages and some of the same symptoms...

I have been puzzled by the "limiter not available" message. I get all the same faults...

 

The SLM is more concerned with 'perimeter' security (hood, trunk, doors, etc.) than immobilising the car.

I'd try to get the OBD reader working if possible as it will help your ongoing diagnostics. The CAN (one of the comms networks) routes from the ODB plug & instrument cluster through the J-gate to the other modules, so worthy of careful attention. If the water level did indeed come as high as the console then it may well have had a soaking.

There is also a specific code for an invalid key and it would be useful to know if the car thinks there's a problem in that area:


Do you have one of the spare keys to try?

The diagram you've posted doesn't quite tell the full story as it doesn't show the data link between the KTM and the ECM. Look at (I think) 13.2:- that page, although referred to, is missing from all the MY electrical guides other than the 2003.

The blinking light on the J-gate sounds like the 'security armed' tell-tale?

Do remember to disconnect the battery during module swaps, etc.

Good luck: member MidnightOwl managed to recover his, and I think he started from a worse position than you:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...0/#post1830240

 

Thank you Michael... To tell the truth I've read every word of THE GREAT Owls thread x2, lol...

I'm working now but, I will get back to your mesaage and go down your line with reply, for sure. For now,,,, one quick question:

The usual VCats sticker.... Discontinued or no longer used in a 2003 car???? I looked and looked but didn't find anything.

Oh and, from that thread, I haven't found a module on this car that looks as rough as what THE GREAT Owl was finding... The SLCModule is much cleaner. Still,,, won't get my hopes up. I'm thinking about what it will take to reprogram things AND whether or not the Key Transponder is a plug and play,,, or does it need programming?

 

Oh and yes,,,, I would REALLY like to get any kind of information from the OBD-II... I hope a fresh battery and a little extra juice will help communication...

 

Yes, great story with a good outcome, although Jared hasn't been around since earlier this year.

I imagine the VCATS label went off with the water - it's only paper. I'm not sure where you can get that information from. Surely Jaguar wouldn't rely wholly on a paper sticker to store it? Maybe a dealership can help.

If you do have to replace the KTM then it will need to be programmed to accept the key(s) you have. Hopefully it was above the waterline and hasn't suffered.

It's around 23:40 here so work finished a while back. I'm sort of conscious of the time difference as my line manager is in NYC and he's usually online until around now. The intercontinental interweb

 

The ECM/U... Doesn't look like this thing has seen water. I wonder if it's the original. The thought makes me cringe... So many mysteries.

I can provide another photo, a zooooom in edit, if need be. But, the larger silver solder joints,,, around the edges,,, seem to connect with a broad wide PCB ground circuit strip that goes all around the board. There is one RIGHT at the interior where the board plug connections enter the module and board. Does the box,,, and the bolt that fastens the loom to the module plug act as a ground for the entire module. In other words,,, does bolting the long to the plug complete the ground/earth for the module. That connection...?


Right there in the center right. The large solder joint between the two major pin ins... Is that a ground that works with the loom bolt on connection? Is the board grounded with the loom bolt? Lol,,, I don't know how to describe what I am thinking... OMG

 

Now, the SCLM is a different story. Soaked... This is the original unit. I should have taken some before shots (these are after cleaning if you can believe) but my damn phone was uncharged for flash,,, and I could wait to get to it.

I washed with a shean of WD-40 first, let sit, then isopropyl and a chip brush. Waited and did it again with a bit of soap and warm water. I began to let it dry and noticed some rust/corrosion forming on solder joints, so I lightly coated it with another super thin shean of WD-40... She is drying on a little stand on a radiator at home, now. The WD-40 seemed to help.

I looked with a magnifying glass and I couldn't see any burned of fried anything in any of the micro circuits or super small foil circuits. I will keep my fingers crossed.

The major "IC4" chip in that first photo looks like all of the connections are,,,, connected,,, but there is a lot of FUZZ between the legs. Turrible!

Due to so many mixed messages I am HOPING I will not have to "reprogram" anything.

I need to figure out what the hell is going on between the key and the starter relay ground signal...

 

Jay, please don't forget to use distilled water, not tap water. Don't forget that these non oxidized deposits were and can be dissolved in water. Always protect from static discharge when handling integrated circuits and or semiconductors like transistors.

FWIW I'd vote not to avoid wd40. If you live near an electronics store, they sell great sprays to clean electric circuits (not Radio Shack cleaner IMO).

If you want a suggestion, I'd be happy to take a photo of some with its bar code.

John