And that's it in a nutshell. Sort of blows the conspiracy theorists out of the water, huh?

 

If you don't have a refinery in your town, it doesn't make any difference which brand you buy. The gas that you buy comes to you through a pipeline (most likely from Houston) and is distributed to local storage tanks where it is pumped into trucks for delivery to your local filling station. The refiners ship thru the same pipeline and the users take from the same pipeline, therefore the local Chevron station may be selling gas refined by BP.

 

^ This.

People with obsessive and compulsive behaviors nervously twitch anytime they might not get 'the right gas' for their vehicle.

That's just their neurosis speaking to themselves.

It doesn't matter. This crap is just like the oil debate. It doesn't matter.

 

The best ever was the one time in thirty years my wife filled the tank. No idea what she put in but it ran sweetly.

Graham

 

Hey, this thread hasn't gotten too outa control just yet, that's good to see. Though I don't have any magic powers anymore to do otherwise if it were. Gas station selection and feeding my senior-xk8, not unlike my favorite steak restaraunt, I'm afraid to try another place's beef in fear of substandard flavor, texture and general disappointment.

That may explain my persistence to use Chevron or Shell, I admit have have partial OCD. It is advantageous for detailing, landscaping, and math problems, but apparently not when accepting such arguments about gas. I elect to believe my super-power-named additives and detergents do make a difference, and I do not wish to attempt proving the opposite theory. (I've written that last 1/2 sentence four times, almost exactly the same each time)

 

OK, this will probably get some of you to pop blood vessels in your brain. FWIW.
Personally, I think that other people are perfectly entitled to believe what they want to believe whether I agree with them or not.

As some of you have noted, raw gasoline is pretty much the same everywhere, however the additives are not, and the results shown here may well not be the same in every part of the country.

Investigation: Best brands of gas for your car

CLEVELAND - A 5 On Your Side investigation reveals how to get more of your money’s worth at the pump.
Working with our partners at Scripps Howard News Service, we found the amount of detergents in gasoline varies among eight national brands.
Detergents are additives that keep your engine clean. Some experts believe more detergents can improve your vehicle’s gas mileage.
REGULAR UNLEADED
In our test of regular unleaded gas, Exxon had the highest level of detergents, with 20 milligrams of residue per 100 milliliters.
BP and Shell followed close behind.
Marathon, Citgo, Pilot and Speedway samples each had less than half the amount of detergent found in the top three brands.
PREMIUM UNLEADED
In our test of premium gas, Shell leads the pack with 31 milligrams.
BP and Exxon followed Shell.
The lowest levels of additives were found at Speedway, Mobil, Citgo, Marathon and Pilot.
Pilot’s 8.8 milligrams was three times less than Shell's.
The Environmental Protection Agency requires gas companies to add detergents to gasoline.
In a statement, Pilot’s Vice-President Alan Wright, said, “Our gas blends meet EPA requirements. We don’t put in extra.”
To test the gasoline, NewsChannel5 collected one gallon samples of regular and premium fuel.
The samples were tested by Paragon Laboratories, an independent, certified testing facility near Detroit.
Paragon performed unwashed gum tests. It is the same test automakers use when spot-checking gas to see if it meets their standards.
Scientists boiled each sample and measured the residue left behind. Higher amounts of residue mean there are higher amounts of detergents in the gasoline. Some experts say the higher level of detergent could equal better gas mileage.
“Obviously, the more detergent, the more efficient job it’s going to do of cleaning the valves,” said Tony Molla, vice president of communications for the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence.
Molla said repeatedly filling up your vehicle with gas that does not have enough detergent could cause deposits to build up on your engine, which would cause your engine to burn more gas.
“As the deposits build up, they tend to attract more deposits, so it’s very much like a process that the longer it goes untreated, the worse it becomes,” he said.
Molla said drivers who own newer cars should check their owner’s manual for recommendations on the best gas for their cars.
He said all drivers should choose one brand of quality gasoline and stick with it.
“One of the worst things you can do is to go from brand to brand to brand, getting the cheapest stuff you can find,” said Molla.

 

And yet no one can produce evidence of cars that suffer poor mileage when using gas with lower levels of additives............

 

I didn't know that anyone was required to.

I think that everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves what gasoline (or oil, or car, or ice cream.......) to buy, based upon their own beliefs and standards and I don't ridicule others for their own personal beliefs as some do.

 

That's awesome! I had no idea. I'm going to start using an entire bottle of laundry detergent every time I wash clothes. More=better, right?

 

Yep, if that is what YOU want to do then that is EXACTLY what you should do and I won't criticize you for it.

 

I'm not going to say I have any first-hand info on what exactly is pumped through the pipelines because I don't. I've always been under the impression that the pipelines carried slightly refined base product which was further refined at regional refineries and retailer specific additives tossed in as it was loaded onto the truck. It does make sense that gasoline could be more financially rewarding being refined then pumped through a pipeline but I'm curious as to the safety of that proposition.

Be that as it may... vehicle OEMs were tired of so many issues with poor quality fuels and got together a number of years ago to hash out the situation. They developed a system now known as 'Top Tier' fuels with very specific parameters. To be listed as a Top Tier supplier a retailer has to accomodate these parameters. Of course, as time passes, financial concerns and desires change, dipshits/carpetbaggers in charge change, etc. As such, retailers jump on and fall off the Top Tier wagon as life goes on. To find out who is currently a Top Tier retailer just Google 'Top Tier' and find out who is currently selling quality product.

Start here: www.toptiergas.com
then go here: Top Tier Gasoline
after that you can go anywhere you want! ;-)

 

Thanks Rev, I work for Exxon Mobil, you are absolutely correct. All base product comes from the same source, the only difference is the additive package. I did notice however when I was forced to fill with 87 she pinged, Seat of the pants dyno could not really detect any reduced performance but the pinging stopped after around 50 miles, suspected reduced spark advance from ECM. For the purpose of longevity what you have in the sump is significantly important than what is in the tank.

 

You (personally) are not being ridiculed - but you've quoted some website loaded with wishy-washy statements like the following:

Some experts? Could, can? Who are these nameless guys and where's their research to back up their statements. My mother used to warn me of all sorts of evil things that might/could/maybe befall me- that's why these things are called 'motherhood statements.'

Yet more vague or meaningless platitudes:

How much is enough? Since nobody can produce any evidence of cars that are clogged up with deposits, maybe the brands that add the legal minimum have 'enough' and the rest is all waste.

The penultimate statement is the best one- has anyone ever seen an owners manual that recommend a specific brand of gas?

Again- not picking on you- just critiquing the quoted material.

 

Well Mikey, let's say that I assume that the engineers who work for the major oil companies know almost as much as some of the experts who post on this forum. Surely not as much, but maybe almost as much.

So, what is it that you are trying to get at?

I am simply saying that everyone should have the right to buy whatever gasoline that they want to based upon their own views. Why does that seem to disturb some people so much?

Is it that some people consider themselves the ultimate experts on some things and simply cannot tolerate or abide anyone else having a different view?

I say that if a guy wants to buy the cheapest gas that he can find, so be it, it is his car and he is entitled to do whatever he wants to do, and, by the same token, if a guy wants to buy brand name gas because he believes that it may be better for his engine, then it is his car and his money and he has every right to do that.

It just puzzles me about how some people take a position on issues and will argue to the death that they are the ultimate expert and simply cannot stand anyone else who does not share their view.

Why is that? It reminds me of high school where some guys try to come off all superior to everyone else.

I am not taking a position and trying to tell anyone else what they should think or do like many others are doing.

Did you read this from the Top Tier information?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.
Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.
These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

I think that it is reasonable for some people to want to use Top Tier or brand name gasoline in their Jaguars, and, at the same time feel that it is perfectly acceptable for others to buy whatever gasoline that they care to. Some people seem to be hung up on them being "right" and everyone else "wrong". Get over it already.

Not picking on you, just saying that I believe that everyone is entitled to buy whatever gas that they want to buy and I am not going to be critical of them for their own personal reasons.

 

I still want to know how gasoline causes crud buildup in the TB.

 

 

When was this test done, because it looks like Exxon and Mobil are two different companies.
Also, look at the filters on the pump, a LOT of gas stations try to save money by not replacing them regularly.

 

Kevin-

Again, I'm not 'picking on you' if that's your assumption, simply questioning/disagreeing with the statements made in the material you quoted. The subject of gasoline/petrol is one of the most frequently raised on this and most other car discussion boards. It's refreshing to see that such discussions do NOT fall into personal attacks on this site and instead are kept at higher levels aimed at attempting to answer questions on sometimes complex technical matters. This process sometimes involves lengthy debate lasting weeks or months with dozens of participants bringing forward their own info and experience

It's pretty easy to find a website somewhere supporting whatever point a poster wants to make- but that doesn't mean that the contents of the website are necessarily true and beyond scrutiny, as in this case.

You're obviously free to believe whatever you want and use whatever gas you choose- but by the same token all us are free to accept/reject opinions of others and should not interpret it as a personal attack.

In this case, I make the simple point that not everybody uses top tier gas in their cars, yet there's no history of these same cars suffering any operational problems. Of particular interest to me is that very few Canadian brands are listed on their site and in fact I can say that I've never used any of them as they are not located convenient to my normal travel patterns. With this in mind- if high levels of additives are essential, and given the scarcity of top tier gas, should their not be an issue in Canada with cars that don't run properly?

I note also that while six manufacturers state that top tier is essential, there's a far greater number that do not appear on this list notably Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes Benz, Nissan, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Volvo and of course Jaguar. It seems not even the OEMs agree that there's a problem that needs solving. Given this- would not you expect that us mere peons be somewhat confused and have a desire to discuss?

 

Mikey, discuss all you like, buy whichever gas you like, drive and enjoy your Jaguar all you like and live happily ever after.

 

My father was in the oil industry for many years, so I know a little about this subject. Like others have stated, the difference in gas is the additives. Here on the west coast it's my understanding that shell and chevron have the best additives, so that's what I use.
Back in the 80's, texaco had a compaign that stated "give us 5 tanks (fill ups)" and u will notice a difference in performance (due to additive/cleaning). I had a 73 mustang and switched to texaco gas- by the 3rd tank I felt a significant improvement in performance. So, I don't think all gas is equal