Well, actually, not literally.
More like visual inspection and advice, so you can breathe freely

But seriously folks, is there anyone in the London area with nothing to do today or tomorrow, who happens to know how to fit primary chains, that could meander round to the Peckham, SE London area to have a look at the way i've fitted my primary chains, just to make sure i've got it right before i refit the engine cover?

I know it's a big ask, but i've been baulking at fitting these chains because i'm so worried i may not fit them properly, and trash my engine when i eventually try to start it.
The front cover is off, the VVT and bush carrier bolts are loose, and after writing this i'm literally about to go and fit the new chains, guides and tensioners.

If there is anyone who could pop round, have a look and assure me it's all fitted correctly and i can refit the front cover, i would be so grateful.

Free tea and biscuits (and petrol money) to anyone kind enough to volunteer.

On the off chance that anyone is brave enough (or can be bothered), it may be best to pm me so i can tell you where i am and guide you to me.

 

If you don't get any volunteers some photos might help - if you look at the threads on doing this you'll see what's needed.

 

Hi Steve, i printed a copy of the primary and secondary chain replacement guide from the FAQ section, and in theory it should be straightforward, but it worries me that if the tension on the chains is not spot on when i tighten them up, or i forget something, things might flap around and do serious damage, or the engine may run rough.

I've been ok getting this far because things like the intake manifold and TB etc are at least non moving parts.

I've never liked the idea of trying to do the chains though, and if not for the fact that when i did the secondary tensioners, there seemed to be more slack in the drivers side secondary chain than i thought there should be, to be honest i think i'd have left it at that.

But i got the idea, looking at the condition of the old tensioners, that maybe the fact that the plastic boots were missing off the bottom, may have weakened the secondary chains due to them rubbing on the metal backing plates of the tensioners.

I've already made mistakes trying to fix this engine, but i can't make a mistake with the chains or it could be fatal to it.

Having never even seen a set of timing chains before, it would be great if someone could have a look and just test the tension, and check that everything has been done properly before i put it back together.

It's taken me months to get the tools, the knowledge and the confidence to get this far, but doing the chains, tensioners and guides properly is the whole point of the exercise.

If i get this bit wrong, then there was no point in even attempting it, but if i can be sure this bit is done right, i can put the rest of it back together pretty quick.

I guess i'm just a coward that's wants someone looking over his shoulder at the vital stage lol.

 

My suggestion was for you to take some pics, then the guys that know about these chains (not me!) could take a look + comment.

 

I wondered how you were doing Roadhogg, if there is no one who can lay hands on it Steve's suggestion of pics, as detailed as possible, will be the best bet.
The guys with the experience can cast an eye over them and you'll get a collective opinion.

 

Did you look at the guide to chain replacement in the X308 section?

You will need to download the PDF, but it shows the whole job.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...k-links-20090/

 

Apologies Steve, i took in your suggestion but forgot to put an answer in print, because i was thinking that pics won't show whether the tension on the chains is correct.
But in the absence of someone being able to have a look in person, admittedly it's the net best option.

Norri the article you linked me to is the same one i downloaded and printed out.

Rain has stopped play temporarily.
So far i've just got everything off, so she's sitting there with no chains, guides, tensioners etc.

 

I'm pretty sure that if you take the slack out with the special tool provided on your hand (thumb) Someone Who Knows will be able to say Go/No go.

 

Does it matter which VVT unit goes on which side of the engine?

When it started raining i had to close the bonnet quick, so i put the VVT and exhaust cam sprockets in the boot, and didn't note which one came off which side of the engine.

Edit:

I'll have to cancel the request for someone to check it for now anyway, i got the installation order wrong so i have to start again, and at this rate, together with the weather, i'll be lucky to get it done by nightfall tomorrow lol.

 

Well i had another go at it today, but i still don't think it's right.

Firstly. when i fitted the VVT and cam sprockets, i found it impossible to tell whether they were out of phase or not, unless the idea is to ensure that when you torque the sprocket bolts up, thats the point at which you lock the phasing. Even then, with the chains obscuring the teeth i think i'd have trouble being sure.
I've done a preliminary fitting of the parts, but haven't fitted the sprocket bolts yet, on the basis it might all have to come off again.

A couple of observations:

The backing plates for the primary tensioners appear to be unnecessary due to the thickness of the bases of the new primaries.

Also, where the top primary chain guides meet each other just above the crank sprockets, they are virtually touching, and may touch when the chains start turning. Are they supposed to be that close?

I can get about 10mm of distance between the guides at this point, by pushing the top guide for the left chain in with my hand, but when i let it go it rests just about ( maybe 2mm away from) the top guide from the right bank.
Is it supposed to be like that?
The picture with my thumb in it just above the crank sprockets shows what i mean.

I put the end of a screwdriver between the guides and the primary tensioner buttons, and i had to push the guides in with considerable finger pressure just to get the end of the screwdriver in the gap.
I'd guess the pointy end of the screwdriver to be about 3mm thick, because i don't have the wedge tool.
I put a pic in to show the screwdriver end in the hole of the cam setting tool, to give some idea of it's thickness.

Any pressure AT ALL of the secondary chains on the non-tensioned side starts to compress the secondary tensioners.

On the face of it, the primary and secondary chains seem nice and tight, and if i can torque up the sprocket bolts with the same result in terms of chain play, they would seem to be about right.


But i'm still worried about the phasing of the sprockets, and whether they are right or not.
Also, are the guides fitted correctly or have i got any the wrong way round?

 

Hi Roadhogg,
sounds like you have done well to get that far. I cant offer you any advise or I would, so I am simply responding to keep your thread at the top of the page.

I know its important the crankshaft sprockets are offset. a good thread to read could be XK8ragtop, it covered timing chains indepth. good images as well. He may be able to give you some advice.

Good luck

steveeasy

 

Thanks for the moral support steve, i'll have a look for the thread.

In the meantime i've looked in the JTIS, which says i'm supposed to remove the variable camshaft oil control unit housing (which i didn't do), and turn the VVT unit to the fully retarded position using a tool number 303-654 (which i haven't got, and also didn't do).

And i'm wondering if it's the VVT to camshaft sprocket's that need to be out of phase (as described in the article by blackonyx in the FAQ section), or the crank sprockets, or both.

Even the JTIS fails to explain clearly which sprockets are supposed to be out of phase, and how to ensure they are, through the fitting and tightening process.

The plots thickening, and just adding to the uncertainty.

Just to make matters worse yeterday, having laid out the VVT, cam sprockets and new secondary chains on the fuse box covers, some guy living in my block who i've never spoken to before comes over and starts asking me about a warning light and restricted performance on his Volvo ( like i'm supposed to know what's wrong with it ) as it starts to rain, so i pop the assemblies in the boot and forget which ones i took off which side.

I'm starting to get this impending sense of doom coming lol.

 

Hi,
I can understand why but you should not. you are half way through and not broken anything. you know a lot more now than you did before you started.

you will get the answers you need this week on the forum. spend all week getting clarity on the issues concerning you most. then it will all come together.

steveeasy

 

hi,
out of interest, have you installed the flywheel locking tool, and have you used and installed cam locking tools on the camshafts. if you have thats great.

in the XK8 ragtop thread, it covers the crankshaft sprockets, and good images for the guides.

steveeasy

 

XK8ragtop my project link.

should really help



https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...project-77642/

 

Good luck getting this sorted out.


Bill N
03 XKR

 

Roadhogg, stick with it buddy
Can anyone else chime in and offer any assistance / support ?
Much appreciated as always........TIA

 

If you want give me a call and I can talk you through it 01603279027....

Looks to me you are pretty much there

 

I've just been catching up a bit on the "my project" thread steve, fantastic thread, and it has ( i think ) answered my question on the crank sprocket phasing.
I didn't take the crank sprockets off, so there' no possibilty of having turned one around when refitting to put them out of phase (apparently they are identical except one is reversed to cause the half tooth difference), and hopefully they won't go out of phase unless removed, so i should be ok there.
I had a similar problem to bluexk8ragtop finding the timing slot in the flywheel for the crank setting plug before itook the crank pulley off.
I saw no marks at all on the flywheel to identify it.

Eventually, after turning the crank with a socket wrench from under the car more times than i could be bothered to count, i noticed that one of the holes was an ever so slightly different shape to the rest, and if i moved my head well over to the passenger side i could identify the timing slot as it came round, and before it lined up with the sensor hole.

So the setting plug is in and the camshaft lockers are fitted, and you can spot the latter in the pictures.

I think your suggestion of spending the week trying to get answers on the phasing is spot on, and that's what i'll do, so that hopefully by next weekend i'll have an answer to the phasing.

The only other ways i can think of just now are to take them off again and draw a horizontal line across their centres. Then make sure that when the secondary chains are in place and the centres of the VVT and cam sprockets are lined up, that the teeth on the sprockets are out of phase, and the chain links will keep them that way.
I'll also have a look to see if the cam sprockets are marked ( like the crank sprockets ), which may tell me if the sprockets have to be facing a certain way round when fitted.
The latter is because when i removed the sprockets from the old chains to place the new chains on, the cam sprockets may have been turned around.

Thank you guys again for the support and assistance.

We all know, i couldn't do this without you.

And i notice someone has put a shout out for me in my thread title (in capital letters).

Ace

 

Actually on the subject of mistakes, i should fess up.

There's a grey multiplug that goes in the side of the thermo housing and i moved it's loom to get at something else some weeks ago.
I didn't notice the multiplug had come to rest on the thermo housing cap as i shut the bonnet, which smashed it to bits.

I got water in the valve seats and bores while cleaning the centre of the block, so i had to pour oil into the bores and crank the starter, and i sheared a secondary tensioner bolt by misreading the torque wrench settings, winding it up to the number mark instead of the centre line ( which is some way below it ).
I estimate i torqued it to 18-20 nm instead of 12.

Luckily a drill and tap and die set got it out, and i re-tapped and cleaned the threads on the block.
Another bolt was visibly stretched.

So i got in touch with Jaguar Spares North East, who i bought the timing chain kit from, to buy four new bolts, and he sent me four bolts which looked possibly used, but good, free of charge.

I lost one of the pins for the secondary tensioners after fitting them, but before deciding to go for the full timing chain job, and the one i had left sprung out and has disappeared while i was trying to take the VVT, cam sprockets and new secondary chains off ( again ) yesterdy, because i thought i had fitted the guides and sprockets in the wrong order.

These are the things that can ( and have ) happened when you are an absolute amateur.

No mistakes?

I wish