Well, it isn't for everybody, that's for certain.

I did the JCNA Concours thing for many years. Overall I'd say that 75% of the cars are driven to the events and, of those, the majority are also driven for enjoyment on a regular basis. This is because the JCNA Concours system does not judge underbody condition or cleanliness, thus making is feasible to actually use the car *and* show the car. There are not that many all-out trailer queens.

If you wanna do well, score-wise, there IS a certain level of committment required.....just in cleaning the car if nothing else. But, beyond that, you can enjoy the concours experience at any level of intensity that you desire, devoting however much time, labor, and money as you care to. If you already have a really nice car then the major expense might end up being travel, meals, and hotels.

If you're bringing an average-ish car up to concours standards it can run into some serious money. And as you approach perfection the last few hundreths-of-a-point can really run into big money.

I worked my up to 99.97 points in Championship class and a regional 1st place with a 140k-miles, non-restored XJ6 and did it on a shoe-string budget...at least compared to the guys that managed 99.99 or 100.0 points . Lots of work, lots of fun, glad I did it. Might do it again one day.

As for "....people with too much time and money on their hands..." well, if they enjoy the hobby, why not? If you really enjoy something you find the time and you find the money.

It kept me out of the taverns and whorehouses for a few years, that's for sure

Cheers
DD

 

Doug,

This is a car forum. Are we definitely still on topic here?

Graham

 

I agree Doug.
That's how I felt about the concours event as well until I went to this one last year. Yes, it has its flawless examples that rarely see the tires on a real road but this event also had some great examples of daily drivers and it actually made me feel better about my car with its real world wear and tear. And the special division was my favorite. To see what some guys have done to their cars was amazing! It really tipped the scale for me to say wtf! I'm turning my car into whatever I want. And how cool there's a venue to display my hard work! And that division was the one most people were really looking at. Yeah, it's cool to see the vintage perfect examples, but the modified cars were the crowd favorites.
Oh, there was a definite "tea and crumpet" crowd but I was really suprised at how many cool people were also there. My car will never be one of those babied trailered vehicles that tweed hatted Union Jack covered dyed in the wool purists literally push on the field. But thanks to those people with more money than I'll ever see for keeping those prime examples alive!!

 

I took a little time yesterday to look at my car through the eyes of the judges. I did find Some things I saw that would probably be issues. I noticed that the seat back hinge covers are missing on the inside of the hinges. Assuming there should be some. Explain how those disappear?!?! I also noticed in the engine bay I need to find the shock mount caps and screw covers. I'm pretty sure these are the things they'll be looking for as well as overall condition.
I did have an idea for the screw covers. I wonder if I can use those plastic caps from the plumbing department that are meant to cover toilet tank floor bolts! Spray them black? And maybe find some spray cap to fit the larger center section? I ain't paying 70.00 each for factory!! Lol

 

Years ago I saw a man with a body off, huge money, 100 point restoration '57 Corvette loose a point because a yellow chalk assembly number on the rear gas tank support was right side up (the undercarriage on C1 Corvette's were assembled with the frame upside down - the chalk number should have been upside down with the car on its wheels). That's how far a hobby can go. At 99 points he still won his division but at that level where is the fun? By the way the big boys usually clean their tires with soap and water and very fine steel wool, both sides.
RB

 

Luckily, I don't think this event is quite so demanding especially in the S3 division. And I literally wash and clean my car every couple weeks and never drive in the rain. I'm a bit OCD with keeping it clean to begin with, even cleaning the air vents from dust.

 

+1 from me Doug

I'd rather see a car thats used as a daily driver with 80k maybe 100k on the clock and in great shape, a very clean example for what they are....

Much rather that than one thats covered 11k miles, is driven around 1k a year, garaged all its life and impreccable ( why wouldn't it be? )

Although I fall in neither class, I'd say I was much closer to the former than the latter for sure

 

Yeah, the Corvette guys go to real extremes. How about losing a points because the grease oozing from your ball joint is not the right shade of amber?

I've never seen anything remotely that intense at a JCNA event, as either judge or entrant. Even if the will was there, the documentation isn't.





Fun is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

Cheers
DD

 

And that is why JCNA Concours has three different level of competition.

The Champion Division has as its reference goal the car exactly as it was when it left the factory front gates - thus "authentic trim screws" are indeed a focus of judging. The point of this Division is to maintain a historical benchmark for the car as it was originally. A ton of historical research has gone into the judging criteria for this Division. Over-restoration (non-original chroming, for example) will knock out a car as surely as under-restoration.

The Driven Division is meant for those of us who, as the name implies, actually drive their cars. Under the bonnet and in the boot are not even looked at by the judges. However, the exterior and the interior are judged. Thus a high standard for those aspects of the car that are normally visible in public is still required. Why would anyone want to "show" a car otherwise?

Finally, the Special Division exists for those cars whose details do not align with the usual production Jaguars. This Division encompasses competition examples, Jaguars that have been significantly modified by their owners, and even "replicas" that never even saw the light of the factory. All cars in this Division are judged in their entirety (bonnet, boot, interior, and exterior) for condition and cleanliness, but authenticity is NOT judged. In fact, Class S3 (in which Phil is competing) requires a minimum level of NON-AUTHENTICITY - the entry must have at least 40 points of deduction for non-authentic or missing features in order to even qualify for S3 judging.

And...there is a fourth unofficial "division": the display-only class, for those who want to present their Jaguars for viewing, but not judging. Often those are cars that are prior-year class winners no longer in concours competition. Or just nice cars that people are proud of.

So....do consider JCNA Concours! The cars are wonderful, and the people are even better. Tea and crumpets vanished ages ago.

 

You'd find plenty of those at JCNA events.....with owners who are very diligent.

The beauty of the concours hobby is it provides additional impetus to keep your Jag in superb condition.

Look at the engine of my old Ser III at 140k miles. That's what participating in concours events does to a person!

It's not a bad thing, is it?

Cheers
DD

 

Might work.

So much depends on the particular judges, as levels of experience and expertise often vary quite a bit.

Remember, they only have 15 minutes to judge your car....and some cars are more complicated to judge than others. I can remember many times where I simply ran out of time while judging a car.

Cheers
DD

 

Superb Doug, love it

 

Remember, in Class S3 *non-authenticity* is not an issue. If you can find a replacement that does not look awful, you will not get dinged. Long ago an experienced concours judge gave me some advice that I have followed ever since: at whatever level you compete, what is most important is visual consistency/uniformity. Nothing must jump out and catch the eyes of the judges.

BTW - have you already short-listed the 40+ points in non-authenticity deductions required in S3? I'd be curious as to what the big hitter items are. I've always enjoyed judging Class S3 to see some of the customization that folks had done - basically Jaguars detailed in a way that the factory did not build. Some beautiful cars.....

 

I have to admit that is one area of shtick that always impresses me but also has eluded me. I tend to keep my cars in great shape with just a modest degree of regular care but the results are good enough such that I have a reputation with all of my friends and acquaintances regarding how nice my cars have always looked. I would also try to keep the engine compartment looking clean but could never figure out how to accomplish the level of pristine shown in your photo or other cars I have seen at various car meets. This was particularly frustrating when I had my Corvette with the clamshell hood since everything was exposed with the hood opened. I did my best but never could justify the time and level of effort needed to get to to the level of your photo. Seems to me it would take too many q-tips, toothbrushes, mini swabs, and lots of scratched up hands and arms to achieve that. I realize you can do wonders just by spraying on some engine cleaner/degreaser but that is dangerous as well.

Doug

 

It's an awful lot of work, yes.

I'm guessing it took 100 hours of labor to get the engine bay looking that good and since the car saw regular use, many additional hours every month keeping it that clean. Then, before a show, the car was taken off the road for several days and each evening after work I'd spend several hours cleaning the entire car.

Arriving at the event means more cleaning....sometimes a little, sometimes a lot....depending on how long the drive was and weather along the way. And how many bugs got squashed.

If you have a 250 mile drive to the event and/or you hit rain along the way....well.....you're gonna spend umpteen hours in the hotel parking lot prepping the car.

Some guys can do this their whole lives. I could only do it for a few years.

Cheers
DD

 

Hey Doug--you can't be married no? yes?

Doug

 

I could never understand the appeal of spending dozens of hours cleaning engine compartments with Q-tips. I didn't do it back in the 1970s with my much-beloved 1974 Datsun 260Z and I'm damned sure not going to do it now, nearly 40 years later....

I'll wash 'em and wax 'em but the days of me spending more than about 90 minutes cleaning and shining a vehicle are long behind me....

 

That's basically where I am coming from also. I may have enjoyed doing that sort of thing when I was young and had time to burn and there would be a slim chance that I would want to do that when retired with lots of money (not gonna happen). But I have a vision of myself running away from the guys in white coats that my wife would be calling should I come home from work and explain that I would be spending the next several hours in the garage cleaning and polishing the engine, to be repeated the next night, then the next, then the next. . . which is why I was asking Doug if he had a wife to contend with.

Doug

 

Oh, my big ticket deduction is the paint. Is a custom mixed color and that's 20 points. The second biggest would be the badging. I have 12 non factory badges on and in my car. 2 points each. DONE!! I actually counted to a point and had over 95 points deduction and decided I was safe!!

 

Awwriight! Well played! Best of luck.