I have dealt with all kinds of car repair and sales places, having worked my way through college as a tech at a fleet maintenance facility. I am an architect and have designed many dealerships, getting to know the owners very well. I know it from the inside and the outside. Dealerships are as varied as the peopole that run them, some good, some bad. My local Jag/Porsche/Audi Dealer is one of the good ones. All my cars are presently serviced there and they always treat me fairly and do good work. I do most of my own work and they have no problem with that, but they are my backup when I can't get to it or it is beyond my facilities. It is true that Jag dealers are expensive, but anyone in business knows why, the expenses have to be covered including unexpected re-repairs when something gets botched....and it happens. The lower the overhead, the easier to cover expenses and the lower the prices. It's always been my theory that things stink from the head, so if a place treats you bad, it's likely the corporate philosophy. It pays to try to reason if you have a problem, sometimes it will work, and you never know unless you ask.

 

Bamaman, best post on this subject award. Thanks

 

Two interesting experiences regarding dealerships:

1) We bought our pre-owned 2005 XJ8L in Houston from an online dealer. My wife's brother looked at the car for me and proclaimed it "mint". She flew down, talked an old school girlfriend into a roadtrip to Seattle and off they went, with the plan of seeing Mount Rushmore on the way home. Way out in the boonies of Wyoming, the air suspension failed. Turned out we had the Select Edition Warranty, but the dealer did not know that or he would have charged me a lot more for the car. To make a long story short, the nearest dealerships were 200 miles back down the road in the Denver area, and the service manager at the dealership in Littleton became a new name on my speed-dial list. As my wife and her friend toured the Badlands in a rental car (compliments of Jaguar), her Jag was towed to Littleton. The dealer fixed the suspension (although I did have to pay for a shock) and found about four other things needing attention that were covered by the warranty. They also fixed some damage that the towing company did (my insurance covered that) and arranged to have the car transported the 400 miles or so up to Rapid City to "reunite it" with my wife. After Jaguar paid her hotel bill, they were back on their way. Now, I know that a lot of that good experience was the result of a great warranty, but the service manager at that dealership really worked hard to make sure everything that was questionable on the car was made right. It has given us nothing but pure joy in the 10 months that have followed.

2) Back in 1999, when I saw a 1993 XJ6 on a local dealer's website (not a Jag dealer) I called and talked to a salesman, who told me how much he thought I would need to pay for it. This was a gorgeous Kingfisher Blue (teal) VDP with Dayton wire wheels. A real knockout at a pretty good price. We went over to the dealer the next afternoon but the guy I had talked to "wasn't available". Now, understand that my wife had never experienced the joy of negotiating with a car dealer, so this was all new to her. After nearly 4 hours of car-buyer's Hell, we left the dealership with a "best price" of $4,000 more than I had been told, and my wife was in tears. It turns out that I had a friend in the used car business and I happened to be talking to him the next day, so I related this story (in much more excruciating detail) to him. He said he knew the owner of that dealership and did not think he wanted his customers treated like that. Said he was a real straight-shooter and I should at least e-mail him to let him know that kind of crap was going on. So I did. About two hours later, the head-guy Sales Manager of his several dealerships called me and asked where I would like my Jaguar delivered, at the originally quoted price.

We had 11 great years with that cat (despite the evil Mr. Lucas' efforts to drive me nuts) and it obviously sold me on the marque, so all's well that ends well. Well, almost. My wife will "NEVER darken the door of another automobile dealer. Period." But, she says she only wants a car with a Leaper on the hood.

 

YOU, son, have some ***** to come on this forum where we all try to HELP one another and spit that crap. I am one of many dealer folks on this sight who want nothing more than see to it people share their knowledge, experience, and thrills of owning a Jaguar. Something that to some is a lifelong dream. I/we freely share our experience, technical info, documents, literature and anything else we have available, in an effort to help make the ownership experience the best it can be.

I've spent 22 years in the Jaguar dealership service department, and I'm plenty proud to say I have owners and clients who come from neighboring states for my services. I have independent shops that send cars to me when they get in over their heads. As several of the folks here have said, dealers are a business, just like any other business. If people aren't treated well, by me or anyone else, they will go somewhere else; it's that simple.

From your comments, I'll gather that you probably "have trouble everywhere you go". You are the kind of "public" that everyone in retail loathes; consequently you have mostly bad experiences that you have to share with everyone else.

Sorry, you put me over the edge. Just take your vitriol somewhere else, PLEASE! We want to have a cordial forum!

Regards,

 

Tosaman, I just picked up on this - guess I'm a little slow today. A car salesman AND a lawyer??? Man, you really own the bottom of the career popularity barrel!! (I can say that because my son-in-law is a lawyer.)

I hope I don't need to say this, but no offense was intended. Sometimes my twisted sense of humor gets me in trouble. Please don't sue.

Cheers,

 

There has been a great push by automobile manufacturers in recent years to improve the quality of all dealerships--large and small, domestic and import, luxury and not so luxury.

"Dealer standards" may address 100 different items including facilities, restrooms, waiting areas, signage, service equipment, parts supplies. . . . The more points scored on dealers standards may give them higher manufacturer incentives, better availability of high demand cars, better parts programs--more back end money/higher profits.

But the most important area being pushed is Customer Satisfaction. When that Service Advisor asks you to send back in the written Survey you're going to get in the mail, he's serious about you taking time to answer the questions and return the form. Down the road, he's going to benefit from from working in a higher performing dealership that's more stable and more able to pay their employees more.

To good employees of the really good Jaguar dealerships that follow this Forum: THANK YOU for all your hard work and, doing a really great job.

Hundreds of GM and Chrysler dealerships in the past three years that have had their franchises terminated. A bunch of Lincoln-Mercury dealership terminations are coming up. These are the guys that didn't meet "Dealer Standards." They all had some good employees, but on the whole, their employees just didn't perform in customer satisfaction and ultimately sales in all departments. It's terrible to see good, skilled people unemployed in any business.

I have observed that most Jaguar dealership complaints result from people problems. If you're not treated right or simply taken advantage of, make sure the Dealership Principal is aware of your experience. In Jaguar dealerships, the owner probably owns a bunch of car dealerships and is he is just looking at the bottom line. Go straight to the top of the organization if you ever expect things to improve.

 

I've got a question that I will never find out on my own, since I'm a poor retired devil.
What does Jaguar do for it's new car purchasers? The only new car I have ever bought was a Mazda Miata. They (Mazda) sent me a nice leather duffle bag and during the warranty period, called me every time I had the car serviced and asked me if I had any problems and was I satisfied with my service? I actually felt like they cared about their product and their customer. Since I'll never be able to afford a new Jag, just wondered how their customer care was.
Oh, Mazda also sent me touch up paint and some keychains I think. Made me feel sorta special. My only other new car was a Chevy Vega. Yeah, worst car I've ever owned. Using oil at 20,000 mi. That's when I got rid of it. The service was lousy too.
Anyway, I would expect the perks for a Jag puchase would be great. Any stories?

 

Don't know, 'cuz I don't buy new cars, but when I was looking for my XK, I saw a 2010 XKR at the local dealer and got talking to a saleman about it. Told me that for the tidy sum of $96,000, Jaguar would even throw in driving lessons at one of several big-time tracks around the country. Apparently this is standard with all the new R's. Pretty cool.

Cheers,

 

Baman: Your post was a real good piece work, Thank you for keeping things in perspective

 

LOL! Another two months and the dealer still hasn't sold that car I mentioned above. It has now been on his lot for at least a year.

2000 Jaguar XK8

 

No one at Jaguar has made such a "push". After years of ford ownership, They got sold. Now who cares? - Tata Motors ? - the dealers around here sure as hell don't. Several have even gone out of business but the stragglers are too dumb/ incompetent to care about anything other than stuffing as much money into their pockets right here, right now. The independents now charge about the same shop rate-even for the same $, people won't go to the dealers.

Check the JD Powers owners survey for the 2007 and later cars. If you have a 2003-2006 car, that's the best Jag. anyone's ever gonna get.

I've had 3 jags and have NEVER seen such a bunch of money-grabbing scum like the jag dealers I've been dealing with in the LA-SF Bay area lately.

No more for me and I'd NEVER even Consider buying one of these cars new! I have the dealer history on my car since new-all $80,000 - and can see how they band-aided warranty work to blow it out the door as cheaply as possible. I'm re-fixing stuff that was done 5 years ago by the selling dealer under warranty!

Maybe Jaguar will finally go the way of Edsel, or even Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Maybe what goes around will finally come around - hope so. Maybe no one will make $75k cars starting in 1997 with plastic engine parts then take until 2001 to replace them with metal ones. Maybe my car will be a classic by the time it's paid for .

 

I basically stay away from dealer service and go with a good local indie shop and for a perfectly good simple reason. Almost all of the good shops I go to, including my favorite and most used, have this one common practice;

Indie shop owner; "Lorwood you need new brakes. Come on back and I will show you"
Lorwood; Sure. (Lorwood follows owner/mechanic back to service bay where he sees his car on lift)
Indie shop owner: You see your pads are low (Shop owner shines light at brake caliper and points to outer pard with screwdriver) and your rotors need either re-cut or replace (Owner takes out gauge and measures rotor in front of Lorwood) you can re-cut but I can replace with better rotor for few dollars more.
Lorwood; Lets replace them. Did you find anything else?
Indie shop owner; Well look at your muffler (Shines light at muffler points to corroded clamp) We will need to fix this soon but I think it can wait until next time.
Lorwood; Lets take care of it today.

My indie shop never does anything without my say so first and they always prefer to take me back and show me or call me and ask if I will come down to look at issues before they start any work.

That is a huge difference!

 

Here we go again!
I'm a dealer guy, and I live that movie every day. You could build that relationship with a dealer just as easily as you did with that guy. It is also true that you could go to an independent that would knock your head off. Some independents are known to buy parts at the dealer and double their cost, which means the parts cost more to the owner than if he'd gone to the dealer. And usually the guy thinks he's been done a favor!

Look, if you have a bad experience somewhere, tear 'em to shreds. TEAR THEM TO SHREDS. Just don't throw everyone in the same bucket.

I try to be helpful around here, but I'm getting tired of being poked in the eye.

Cheers,

 

I can only speak of my personal experience and from that point of view; Dealers do not let you walk into there service bay and stand under your car while they explain or show you what issues exist. Dealers do not leave your car on the lift while you drive to the shop so you can be shown what is wrong. Dealers do not let you chose aftermarket parts that may be as good or better than factory.Dealers need volume and everybody from the service manager to the wash kid is under the gun to produce turnover. Most indie shops are owner operated and most times you will find the owner under the hood wrench in hand. For my Jag I found an Indie shop who's owner worked for Jaguar for thirty years. He recently changed all of the fluids and all of the filters using factory parts for the price of a coolant flush at the local Jag dealer and I sat on a stool in his garage and watched him do it. I may get some Luke warm coffee and a dunkin donut at the Jag dealer but I really don't know what they are or are not doing to my car. So for me its not about a bad experience its about a better bang for your buck.

Tip when buying a new car. You know that moment when the "finance manager" is trying to sell you that warranty on a brand new car and he will not take no for an answer? Tell him you plan on putting headers and a chip in the car next week. That usually ends the sales pitch.

 

I agree with xjrguy that you can't group all dealers or indie shops together. Each one is different. However, here's kind of an odd story: I went to Discount Tire a while back to get tires. They have a giant, 30 foot long window that looks out over their shop. They didn't mind if I walked out into the shop to talk to the tire guy. They gave me great service and I liked that I could watch everything from the waiting room. Unfortunately they don't do alignments, so after I got the tires I drove over to Just Tires to get an alignment. Now don't ask me why a place called Just Tires does alignments. I don't know. But I did not like Just Tires at all. They didn't have a big window. The only window they had was a tiny little window in the door to the shop. The window was about 3 inches wide, seriously! There was a sign on the door that said something like "due to insurance requirements, customers are not allowed beyond this point". I did not like it at all. I had no idea if they was actually doing an alignment or just "pencil whipping" it. I won't be going back to Just Tires. If they are afraid to let me see them working on my car, then I'm afraid to let them work on it.

 

Steve - Hang in there, buddy. For every member you feel has given you a "poke in the eye", there are dozens of us who depend on your expertise and appreciate your willingness to share it with us.

If I was anywhere close to them, I would gladly use the dealership in Littleton, Colorado, just because they took such good care of my wife when she needed help (as noted in an earlier post). I also took her XJ8 into the local dealershop here in Bellevue because the key didn't want to work in the door lock. They put a shot of lube into it (duh), washed the car and sent me on my way, no charge. Can't complain about that.

There are good and bad eggs everywhere. I guess that since Jags are such a unique beast and so few mechanics really know what to do with them, we all feel a bit vulnerable when we hand ours over to someone. If they are one of those bad eggs, they can stick it to us and what can we do??

I just remembered another story that shows both sides of this. Way back in 1969, my first car was a 1966 Fiat 1500 Spyder. Neat little car but rare as hens' teeth. Something in the transmission broke when I was driving it accross the country, and I nursed it to Chicago. A dealer there took about a week to fix it, mainly because he needed some hard to find parts. About 5 months later, it broke again out in upstate New York. When the Fiat dealer in Schenectady fixed it, he told me that the culpret was a broken gear cluster that had obviously overheated in the earlier incident and should have never been re-installed. I could tell it ticked him off and he took pictures of the part and sent them off to Fiat USA. Ultimately, headquarters made the guy in Chicago reimburse me for half of the bill in New York, and they paid me the other half. That second dealer could have blown it off and I would have never known, but he had integrity and it made him mad that the other dealer didn't.
I know guys like that are out there. Thanks.

 

Lorwood, those werent the same guys that told you that you need new shocks were they???
I have no problem bringing owners back and prefer too when possible. We also won Pride of Jaguar again and only 16 dealers in the nation won that top honor. Oh a Lorwood, while we're working on your car we'll give you a loaner car to drive so you can go on with your job and we'll have the car handwashed and vacuumed when we finish

 

I'm good, Larry, thanks a million! Once in a while I just pop a cork. I hang around precisely because there are so many, many folks who appreciate the assistance; and like you, they are never shy about saying so.

Tip 'o the glass to all of you!

Oh! Looks like Brutal bringin' up the rear!

Cheers,

 

Yes it was the same guy who told me I needed new shocks. He also told me I needed new tires, but not to buy them from him because that would cost to much, but to order them on line and have them delivered to his shop where he will mount and balance them and do an alignment for ninety dollars. So for me the Jury is out on this shop. When I get a chance a second shop will look at the shocks and if they need replace then I found my Jag shop. My point is that for me an Indie shop means dealing directly with the owner who is usually the head mechanic. It means having access to the service bay regardless of insurance regs. It means I am with the car watching it get serviced and having the serviced explained and worn parts shown to me while they are still on the car when possible, which for me is what I want. I don't want a ride, I don't want a loaner and please oh please Do Not Wash My Car!!! If I want swirls I will go to the car wash. (I just spent $275.00 on a pro detailer at my home who spent 5 hours taking out swirls put in by amature car washers) I know that there are good dealers out there but for me the amount of pure trust it takes to hand off my car to a high volume shop, and assume that only the work that needs doing is getting done properly while I sit and eat a stale donut is not something I am comfortable with.

 

lorwood, we get it, you like indie shops. Great!