This insane push for ridiculous power numbers is comical. When I bought my 1995 Corvette new back in 1995, it had 300hp which was "mystical" at that time. It was plenty powerful back then and, in the 14 years I owned it I probably never came close to pushing the car where I needed to use all that horsepower. So it seems even more absurd when I keep seeing the cover stories on the various auto mags touting new models with 400, 450, 500, 550, then close to 600hp. I suspect most of these uber-BMW's, Mercedes, Cadillacs, Lambos, Porsche Turbos, GTR's, etc. are sold in places like Los Angeles and other tinseltowns where there are still an abundance of people not knowing what to do with their money so they get their kicks being the first to get from one red light to the next before anyone else.

Doug

 

The evolution now patterns after the period from around 1956 to 1971 in terms of horsepower wars - but only edging up a little bit each year against competing automakers while still allowing themselves a way to add a little more each year. It will be interesting to see what crashes it this time. Last time it was General Motors joining with the Feds for EPA and DOT rules as a means to wipe out all the small manufacturers and really socking it to Ford and Chrysler.
Given it take virtually no more dollars to make 9 liter motors rather than 6 and boost levels are only limited by compression ratios, the only thing preventing 1,000 horsepower daily drivers now are the manufacturers themselves. Curiously, while the cars are making more horsepower, their performance levels are quite keeping up with the increases - meaning the computers are both making the peak horsepower - but also not allowing full access to it.
The automakers have always set a max standard for pedestrian car performance regardless of how much of a monster motor they put in it. Now they use computers. Before they used weight and gear ratios to redline maximum speeds.
I think when our 500+ horsepower cars become old enough that the typical high school kid can buy one, we'll see some crack downs. As always, the first limiting factor is the insurance companies. Mine treated my XKR almost as if I was insuring a Ferrari - and the Mrs & I are in the 50+, zero ticket category. Actually, the agent had the policy put into the Mrs. name with me as an additional driver - somehow saving almost a thousand a year doing so. Most companies wouldn't even touch the policy on an XKR, though would cover an XK8.
Like in the late 60s, some force is going to raise its ugly head and say "wait a minute, we're putting 16 year olds into 750 horsepower passenger cars? Is this ethical?"
I researched (personal interest and academically) the crushing of performance in early 70s. There were major discussions about putting 500 horsepower Hemis into 2+ ton sedans with taxi cab quality brakes and suspensions and selling them to kids as an ethical matter. One engineer at Chrysler snided, "We could make a lot of money selling machine guns to 16 year olds too. That would probably result in less deaths than what we're doing now."
Where do you think these horsepower wars will go? Continually increasing horsepower on paper - but having computers that keep it essentially unusable for which annual actual acceleration increases are measured in 1/100ths of a second and continuing to keep these cars in the nearly 2 ton range which combined with traction issues also limits fully using the horsepower? 600 horsepower is A LOT of horsepower.

 

I was a few weeks off my 25th birthday and my insurance lady let out a snicker when I told her I was buying an XK8. Truth be told, it wasn't as bad as I expected and I only had to pay a months worth of high rate.

I think insurance will continue bigging a big factor, but I see emissions and economy regulations being the largest factor in the future. With the effort to go "green", the era of big horsepower is probably ending.

 

I disagree. Having gone through the 1960s and 1970s, the death of performance first came as a result of the environmental wackos and later due to the couple of so-called gas "crises" where price-per-gallon first jumped from about 35 cents a gallon to a buck, and then from a buck to a buck-and-a-half. There is nothing like a doubling of gas prices to get average drivers into mini-box 4-bangers.

Doug

 

True. However GM switched teams to join forces with the Greenies and safety folks, realizing that virtually no small independents could afford the tooling and technical changes and that Chrysler was already on the edge financially.

Even more it put Ford on the rocks too. Ford had invested half a billion bucks into next generation motors that could make massive horsepower and be expanded to greatly larger displacement, but they were "dirty" motors. The Cleveland series allowed from massive valves and ports with crank webbing and stroke potential to go to nearly 500 cubic inches for a "small" block. Their 429 cammer project had the cylinder spacing and stroke potential to become a 700 cubic inch overhead cam V8 making a naturally aspired 900 horsepower monster with ports so large you could put coke cans in them. The tooling and research all was reduced to worthlessness in EPA regs.

By contrast, GM had done nothing in new performance motor development for over half a decade when 1972 regulations hit and no serious changes to their SBC and BBCs for over a decade.

Accordingly, GM was largely successful in using EPA regs to their competitive advantage. Chrysler all but went under, surviving on a bailout and god-awful K-cars and Ford had to go begging to Congress to give Ford a pass on EPA regs. for a few years to some degree. Essentially all limited production companies in Europe (most making micro and mini cars) either shut down or could not longer import to the USA.

Porsche was a particular GM target with GM still fuming over the Corvair. If they couldn't have air cooled rear engine cars then Porsche shouldn't be able to either. This lead Porsche to the 928 project, though first releasing the 944 which has a motor that is exactly 1/2 of a 928 V-8.

The 928 may have been one of the biggest auto gambles in decades given the cost of the project compared to the size of Porsche at that time. But it scared the hell out of GM in relation to their Corvette because if 1 turbo on half a 928 motor could near match their Vette, what would a 928 with two turbos do, given the 928 was already the fastest production car in the world and a 4 seater? Porsche had made a killer front engine 4 cylinders and luxury 8 cylinder beyond anything GM could come close to.

So GM backed off pursuing outlawing rear engined cars as inherently dangerous, saving Porsche's beloved 911 styles. Those are the only models Porsche ever cared about anyway. The 944/928s were money losers despite their prices to save the 911s against GM's attack at rear engine cars via safety/DOT regs.

The mid 70s through the 80s allowed Detroit and particularly GM to remain dominant selling notably pitiful cars. But this also opened the door wide open to the Japanese and earning Japan the reputation for quality.
The response of Detroit to Japan was to then instead market "BIGNESS" in full sized SUVs even coming up with special exceptions to regulations about them claiming they were someone different although then were just big station wagon type bodies on ancient pickup truck frames with cheesy billowing interiors at huge margins of profit.
Blah-blah-blah...
all leading to today.

Detroit finally, after decades, is again making very decent and performance cars. A 2010 ZR1 is a real killer at low ball prices compared to imports (and I never liked Vettes) with the Chrysler 300C Hemi, 'Stang Boss 427, Chysler 400+ Hemis, Cadillac CTV-C etc seriously fast and performance upgradable. But it may be too late for USA makers though. Who has the bucks? And of those who do, who are brave enough to finance a $50,000 car these days?

Who in the 60s and 70s ever would have thought that American cars would be selling for 10 to 20% less than their Japanese counterpart models and even then still losing the competition? I remember Subarus first coming in at $100 down and $1999 new.

On the topic of this forum - ie Jaguars - Jaguar has always faced an uphill battle between economy of scale for limited production and wage competitiveness. But they kept their reputation and always ended up picking an appearance winner for the era - running the design then for as many years-decades as possible before the huge retooling costs. It would only take one design in terms of appearance "miss" for Jaguar to go under for good.
The next generation after the XK8/R isn't going to be easy, although Jag seems well headed in the right direction for their sedans. I don't think the XK series is a Jaguar's priority and guess they'll trickle it along in minor appearance changes as many years as people still buy enough to keep the line at least coming close to break-even. Jaguar's future is in their J series.

 

(Correction... F, not J, series...)

 

you've just been tagged our resident 'blogger' dfwx, if I only had the power to give you the appropriate title near your little avatar.

 

I wonder if that is a good thing or a bad thing

Doug

 

Lol.
"I plead no contest."
When I get into something I tend to REALLY get into it. This also is one way I take mental breaks as a diversion from the endless mini-crisis and chores of being in small business.
I'll try to keep it in check.

 

Nice review of your XKR - hope you continue to enjoy it

 

A couple of points from England where we have absolutely **** road safety fascists in power.......

1. Dont these cars have a Dynamic Stability Control ? You could try turning this off, but don't kill yourself !

2. These cars were designed for, and sold into, a different market to the one Porsche are chasing. Jaguar tried to meet the needs of those buyers who wanted lots of style, but also comfort and a bit of go, but not too much.

3. There is much of the old XJS in the car, especially the suspension, and you would not expect an XJS to be sporty, would you ?

 

Dfwx--is that the same metallic green XKR that was on ebay forever?

Did the guy ever fix the drive belt for the supercharger? I told him it was on inside-out (ribs facing out), but he did his best sales-sleaze answer and told me that was the way the British do it--buy it now!

TTYL
David

 

Probably the same one. Belt backwards? I haven't even opened the hood yet!

 

It's dark and cold out. I'll check in the AM. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Obviously the belt issue is totally minor. If it wasn't used too long in the wrong configuration, you can just reinstall correctly. If it's damaged, the worst case is you'll just need a new belt.

You should notice some power gains with a non-slipping belt. It's not too hard to replace yourself, there's just enough room if you remove the electric fan assembly.

Congratulations on the purchase--the car is very nice. I would have bought it almost a year ago, but I frankly didn't care for the seller. He had capricious pricing and an attitude too.

TTYL
David

 

It has identical grooves on both sides of the belt. Exactly the same depth, same appearance etc. It doesn't seem a flat side that was worn down as they are 100% identical on both sides.
Did the make belts like that? Other than maybe more likely to break, if the grooves are identical what difference would it make?
Anyway, it seems it is the same Jag.
He wasn't willing to come off the price (dropped only $1000) but he tossed a couple of trinkets for free, sent gobs of photos even after purchase and was super on communication after the sale.
Sure is tight under that hood. I can see how a whipple setup without hood mods would be a real challenge. I wish someone had drawn up an air flow drawing of how the air flows through the intercooler etc. What a maze!

 

Air flows through a small radiator in front of the car. Coolant flows through that radiator and then through the Intercooler on top of the Intake Manifold. There is a small electric pump to circulate the coolant. There is a crossover hose between the Intercooler circuit and the engine coolant system. However, there is normally no coolant flow through the crossover hose.

 

Thanx!

 

DFWX

What a great writeup. I read it with keen interest and a feeling of kindred spirits with you. I have a natural tendency to view cars from a performance perspective too. It took me a while to get properly grounded in Jaguars. XK8/Rs are definitely in the luxo- GT cruiser space. I've come to love that about them and wouldn't be without one...or three. For me, it's all about the stares at the stoplights.

It is wishful thinking you'll be competing with true speed racers anytime soon, at least as a practical matter, and you're going to get beaten like a drum going against alot of factory stock stuff out there. I know some try to make these into speedsters regardless of the cost, and I truly applaud their efforts, heck, I used to. Unfortunately, in the end, they end up with a kluged up luxo cruiser that breaks often and hard to sell someday.

My position, if you want to go fast, just buy it. Try beating a ZR1 for the money. And, designed to go that fast by factory engineers. When it breaks, stock parts fixes it right up.

The closest I came to the feeling of a real Luxo sleeper "screaming maniac" car was the flat out drive I took in my buddy's 08 Bentley Continental GT Speed (in black). This car is aptly named "a bullet in a tuxedo". Gt Speed narrows the field considerably, but still gets beaten! And talk about ZERO driver FB...actually a little scarry.

Again, for all the "modders" out there, I STILL hail your efforts and will cheer you onwards (from the sidelines) with all that you do.

 

I wrestled with the question before buying. I could have gone for a new Camero, Chrysler 300 etc and buy performance parts off the shelf relatively cheap with enormous tech info out there and without ZR1 costs. To take a Camero to ZR1 horsepower would be relatively cheap.
But, not matter what done, it still just a Chevy, one of the pack.
I wanted (and in some ways needed) the class. A used XKR/XK8 is about the most bang for the buck you can get in the "statement" I wanted my toy-car to make. There are literally hundreds of Corvettes around here. I would just be another old guy in a Vette and that wouldn't work for my goals.

I do realize that "getting into the motor" itself on an XKR is just out of the question in terms of costs and availability. Otherwise I figured I'd be paying 2x to 3X for any mods. And, candidly, I've found all the components I need - (meaning it just spending the money) - with one HUGE exception.

In raw terms, 450 horsepower will cost around $10,000 and a bit over 500 would cost around $20,000. But I would be beating my head against the wall in terms of gearing. Since an XKR isn't a top speed car nor would 200 mph potential have any value whatsoever, 3.03 gearing makes no sense. It exists only for gas mileage, which I don't care about.

I can't find a way to alter the rear gear ratio. It is a lack-of-info challenge. There's only so much can be done with a 3.03 differential. 450 horsepower with gearing in the 3.70 range would give the performance level I seek and would benefit from. 500 bhp would be great, but 450 and the lower gearing would work.