Hello,
I've written before, but wanted to post again, now that I have more info. I bought my 2000 XK8 5 months ago. It has a problem where it will not start, the car will give a message of "Trans Fault, ABS Unavailable, TCS Unavailable." It will not let me move the shifter out of Park. It will crank, but will not start, and the messages will keep flashing. After 15 minutes, every time, it will "wake up" and let me start the car. The car has a P1000 code when I scanned it.

I took it to a local Jaguar "expert" shop. They said there was a problem with the J-gate shifter, a previous owner had "shaved" part of the mounting tabs and it was a problem. I paid $500 to have this replaced, and the problem did not go away. I took it back again. They then said that it was the Transmission Rotary Switch that was the problem, as it didn't know the exact position of the trans and that it would not let it start. I paid $850 for this. They also said I needed a new TCM computer, but the car should start okay without it. They did not have one available, so it was not installed. They gave me the wrong part number, which tells me they are probably just making this up, too, to try to get more money out of me, or just make it sound like they know what they are doing, when they have no clue how to fix the car. I got the car back, did not replace the TCM computer and it did not have any issues for about 8 starts, then it happened again. In addition, I'm now getting a P0172 code (too rich). I don't know if this related to anything the Jag shop did, but it's not helping! Very embarrassing when I'm there cranking the car in the parking lot and folks are staring and coming up to me "do you need a jump." At least they were trying to be helpful; very nice of them.

I do not want to take it back to the Jag shop, as I don't trust them. They already said they would not have taken the car had they known how this would go, so they don't want me back anyway. Some "experts" these guys are. They clearly were just throwing parts at the problem and doing no diagnostic work whatsoever. They also told me I need a new battery and need my parking brake adjusted, neither of which are true, so I know they are trying to scam money out of me (they really already have, but I have no definitive proof). If I take it back, they will just say I need a new TCM computer, which probably will not fix the problem and will cost more hundreds more dollars.

I found another shop that may be able to help that was recommended thru my MG club. They have a VERY good relationship with the MG club, so that may help.

Anyway, the point of this email is, before I take it to this shop, has anyone experienced an issue like this before and does anyone have any advice, based on the description I provided above? I really like this car, it's beautiful and drives nicely once it starts and gets warmed up and I would like to keep it. I've also thrown another $5,000 in other parts, repairs, factory accessories, and tires to make it more original and complete, so I'm already in over my head by a LOT (I took a known risk in purchasing the car as-is). I don't want to throw in the towel, but my money only goes so far before I have to give up. This will be my last attempt, or I may have to just scrap the car and take a massive loss, as I can't sell it in this condition. Any thoughts, advice, are solutions are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris

 

So, starting again systematically.
1. Are you using a jag-specific scanner, and have there ever been any codes other than P1000 and P0172?
2. Will it start in neutral? That is, remove the torx screw right next to the shifter. Push down with a key or allen wrench to release the shifter towards reverse (have a brake on). Remove the key or allen wrench to put into neutral, try to start the car.

 

Hello, Thank you for the response!

1) I am not using a Jag-specific scanner. I have no access to one. I am now also getting a P1316 code and Cyl bank 5-8 misfire codes, but these happened after all of the non-start story occurred, so I am not considering those as related to the start problem.

2) I have not tried that, mainly because when it happens I am away from home and didn't bring a Torx socket. I will get right on that, but I am at the whim of the car, it decides when it will not start, not me, but I will put in the proper Torx setup in the car and have it ready from now on and I will try that tomorrow.

Thanks,
Chris

 

My 2 centa

Undo the shifter cable completely at the JGate inside the car. Let it flop around in there... Get under the car and on the left hand side of the transmission, find where the shifter cable meets the arm on the side of the transmission and PULL the arm back allllll the way towards the rear of the car. TRUE PARK as far as the transmission is concerned. Then, with a few test runs, run the arm forward as far as it will go. Then back to "park" then forward again. All this is with car off, key off and maybe even the battery disconnected. Then, from "true park" click it forward (towards the front of the car) 2 detent clicks, should be "true neutral" as far as the transmission is concerned.... Then, leave it there and get back into the car.

At this, with the cable completely discon, put the JGate to neutral, in the neutral position. Neutral has some wiggle room on the gate. Now, caaarrrfully reconnect the shifter cable swivel to the JGate post and then,,, without moving the shifter cable, post and shifter handle, do up the locking nuts that secure the cable to the JGate assembly.

You may have to do this 3 or 4 times before it's "right" and the shifter and the trans are in sync... It's fiddly and you'll get a feel for it. Try starting it in neutral.

Then, there is a neutral safety switch (might not be the correct name) on the other side of the transmission body that could be messing up. Get under the car on the passengers side (RH) and take a look for a cracked wire housing - any obvious signs of mess. Maybe replace it. They can go bad.

 

1. Yes, probably a reasonable assumption. I was just wondering if you are getting P1260 (security) or something like P1797 (ECM cannot see TCM over the can bus or the equivalent code from the ABS). These and many other issues will prevent start, but it seems that first it's either the switches in the shifter, brake, or ignition or security input from the SLM-BPM-ECM interaction including the CAN bus. The principal reason for considering the latter is that the instrument panel is displaying messages that suggest it. However, there are a number of other things that can do this too. Do you only receive the TRANS, ABS, TRAK messages when it doesn't start?

2. If it's happening often, just unscrew it before hand, then you have your key to push down in the hole. You get your key back after you release the shifter, then put into neutral.

Good luck with it.

 

Jay,
Thanks, I will try that within the next week, when I get some time. I'll write back with the results.

Dale,
"Do you only receive the TRANS, ABS, TRAK messages when it doesn't start?" -Yes, those are the only messages that flash in the gauge cluster. I have never gotten any of the other codes you describe.

-Chris

 

Chris,

The P1000 code (on-board diagnostic tests have not been completed) indicates someone has cleared the codes recently.

I see you have put a lot of money into this without making progress, let alone resolving the issue and can understand your frustration with the vehicle.

Unable to move the shifter out of park is usually a failed brake interlock. JayJagJay and crbass have given you the procedure for manually bypassing this and checking cable adjustment.

Cranking and not starting or difficult starting could be a fuel pressure issue but it could also be a sign the throttle body position sensor is faulty. You add it "drives nicely once it starts and gets warmed up". Again, a further indication it could be throttle body or could be a faulty temperature sensor.

This really needs a Jaguar compatible scantool and preferably Jaguar SDD to get a better indication of what is going on. More spending BUT importantly targetted and systematic troubleshooting.

Graham

 

From what you are saying the car will crank and will not run. This could be caused by many things and with the shifter not unlocking leads me to the exciter ring, brake switch, key control module or a bad key. Do you have another key or have you given that a try?

 

Without a complete scan of the CAN bus (or the SCP network, because that could cause a NO-START if the BPM is off-line) you will not get a complete picture of the problem.

You really should find someone with a Jag specific diagnostic tool.

Remember that 2000 was the year with the recall/service action regarding the INSTPK CAN bus issue.

 

DO NOT GO OUT AND BUY THIS****

This is an example of the neutral position-er and safety switch. It is on the RH side of the transmission, the US Passenger Side. See if you can get a peak at it from under the car. Lots of times the wire harness going into it at the top of the unit will be cracked which will allow junk inside. Then, it can twist a little on it's post and set screws. That post on the RH side O the transmission is directly linked (thru the internals of the transmission housing) to the gear shift lever on the the OTHER/LH side of the transmission. All of these bits, the shifter cable, the LH arm, the contacts inside of this saftey switch and the sensors inside of the JGate (where it lights up from P, to R, to N, to D) all have to be in sync or things get funny (not so funny) and it will BLOCK the car from starting, cranking and all sorts of PITA things. If this switch is bad or mis-positiined (as with other things in this set up) it will stop the show.

When you move the shifter around are you noticing the red light in the shifter position ie. The P, R, N or D BLINKING/FLASHING? If so, the shifter is telling you that SOMETHING is not in sync...and it could be all or any of what's mentioned above.

You'll get it. It takes a whole other kind of patience. Jag patience, lol

 

Well, I test drove the car, could not get it to cause the transmission fault, which is what I expected. Tried about 4 times, and it started fine each time. It ran very poorly, and now gives me a "Restricted Performance" warning, but that's another story that we won't get into. I took a torx bit and took off the torx nut, so now I know how to unlock the trans if it happens again.

Cranking/starting is not an issue here, it's related to some type of switch or computer not letting the car start only when this condition occurs with the Trans Fault. Once the condition clears itself after 15 minutes, it will start fine, so I know it's not the key, starter, or fuel pressure.

The "brake interlock," if that is the Lucas cylindrical piece in the front of the J-gate, works fine when the car doesn't give the transmission fault. This is the piece that operates a plunger that seems to lock or unlock the J-gate when you put your foot on the brake, if this is indeed what we're talking about. It will NOT disengage when the Trans Fault code flashes, foot on the brake or not, but works fine otherwise. No flashing indicators on the J-gate P, R, N ,D, etc., it will just scroll the Trans Fault, NO ABS, ad NO TCS messages.

Being a newer owner, I know nothing about the INSTPK CAN issue. I'll have to bring it up at the new shop.

I got the car up on ramps, so I will try the cable adjustment, probably this weekend when I get enough time. I'll also check out the neutral safety switch. The shifter does seem a little out of place, but it was perfect before this shop started messing with it, so not sure if that even has anything to do with it. Also frustrating that this problem happens randomly, so can't fully test it. I will probably make the cable adjustment, ensure the neutral switch seems okay, then limp it to the next shop. It's now giving me the "Restricted Performance" message when I start the car, so the whole car is just a complete mess.

I appreciate all the posts and advice, but I'm way over my head with this, so I will try these two tasks, then I will have to take the car into the new shop, since it has so many other problems. The new shop has the Jag-specific computer and they told me they'll take a flash or something of the computer to get all the stats on what is going on, and this will give them a better idea of what is going on. If they can't fix it, I'm done with the car, it seems like it could be an infinite number of problems in a specific combination that is the problem, and I'm not sure if anyone can fix it, and I'm already out thousands of dollars for nothing.

Regards,
Chris

 

I would like to get a little more information on your problem and would like to talk to you about it. Could you send me an email I will send you my phone number.

gus@jagrepair.com

 

Quick update, I have the car up on ramps and have the J-gate trim off. I'll be trying to adjust the trans cable this weekend for starters after I remove the console It is definitely out of adjustment, but I will say it was fine before I took it to the Jag shop! Probably has nothing to do with my starting problem.

In the meantime, I've started that car up about 8 times with no "Trans Fault" error. Don't know if this is good news, because it happens randomly, usually every 12 or so starts. I've turn the accessory ignition on to do a system check maybe 20+ times and no Trans Fault error.

The bad news is that when I do start the car, it gives the "Restricted Performance" message now on every start and it runs very rough most of the time now, even when heated up. Sometimes it will clear up, but now mostly not.

This weekend I will try the cable adjust, check out the neutral safety switch, test out the coils/coil relays, then I'm pretty much out of options for anything I can do. If my fiddling does nothing, then it's off to the Jag shop for one last try, and if that doesn't work, it's going for sale as is at a huge loss, it won't be worth continuing to repair it, as I'm already WAY under water with it that I'll never get back and I don't even have a drivable car. Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm hoping for the best.

-Chris

 

If the engine is running rough, check the STFTs and LTFTs if no DTCs are present.

Quite often the instrument cluster warnings can be triggered by a failing or weak battery. Use a voltmeter to check the battery voltage across the terminals with the ignition in the OFF position. There should be a minimum of 12.6 volts present.

 

Thanks for the response. Excuse my ignorance, but what are STFTs and LTFTs? I am a rank amateur with XK8s so far. I have many misfire codes, which I'll read again this weekend, since they've probably changed or gotten worse. I'll check the battery, too, but it seems very strong.

 

STFT = Short Term Fuel Trims

LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trims

 

Aside from anything else, whenever I have a car that cranks but won't start the first thing I do is spray some starting fluid in the air intake to see if I have a fuel problem (it starts and runs for a few seconds) or an ignition problem (it doesn't), then I go from there. I'm not familiar enough to suggest anything more but that is always my first fork in the troubleshooting tree. With all that you have going on, who knows if you have more than one problem. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Starting and fuel isn't a problem, it's the computer lock-out of the ability to start the car, randomly (usually about every 12 starts) that is the problem. The other 11 or so times I attempt to start the car, it will start just fine.

 

If you keep getting the restricted performance alert once you do get the car started it very well may be that the throttle body needs rebuilt. I had the same issue with my 2000 XK8 and once I had it rebuilt I have been golden.

Stephen

 

I had same issue with my 98 convertible cleaned throttle body --- car has run fine for last two years --- I do use gas additive every other tank! Good luck ---love these cars --- have three!