I am in the process of installing a new octopus hose. My question in how does the Norma connector on the passengers side (port, US) work. It is the big black one with a green "shield" on it. There is no "lock" or other guide on the connector that I can find. It is the main heater line with the input arrow # 1 input from engine.

 

Hi,
The green 'safety' ring should be removed and discarded. Push the Norma onto the metal pipe attached to the block until the tangs clip over the ridge on the pipe.
Once it's in place, there is a locking ring on the connector that slides forward to lock the tangs in place.

It's a tad difficult to describe:- perhaps this thread from GordoGatCar will help:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x.../#&gid=1&pid=3

 

Two questions please: poster michaelh mentions an "annulus" on the metal pipe. Other posters mention a 'ridge' formed in the metal pipe. On my car there is a separate piece of metal (chrome/silver in color) that is somehow attached to the brass or steel metal pipe that leads up under the intake manifold. This metal ring or collar is much like a compression fitting for a plumbing pipe. I slipped the rubber hose over this collar and put a screw on type hose clamp over it. Is this collar what the Norma 'fingers' are designed to slip over? or are the designed to slip over a simple bump/ridge formed into the pipe?




Second, OP: David Dougherty mentions that the hose 'goes on the bottom up against the firewall.' I assume you mean between the bracket for the junction block and the rear of the fire wall. Isn't the hose supposed to go under the trans tunnel? That's where mine goes. Is mine in the wrong place? And is that why I'm having so much trouble removing it?

 

Hi,
Apologies for my varying descriptions.
Someone has been there before you, I think. The end of the pipe should look like this:



The octopus sits behind the connector block atop the trans tunnel. It's pretty buried:- removing the TB definitely makes the job easier.
There is at least one zip tie holding it in there.

 

More questions... I believe that the metal collar that's now stuck on my pipe is residue from the Norma connector/clamp/coupling (whatever it's called.) The image below is what I started with. You can see the blue ring on the coupling before I destroyed it. The 4 little fingers broke off when I tried squeezing & twisting the plastic coupler. In the end the only way I could remove the coupler/whatever was to cut the top (large part) of the plastic shroud next to the blue ring. When I got this separated I was able to slide the plastic sections forward on the pipe and expose the end of the rubber hose. I twisted & separated the rubber hose and slid it towards the back of the car. When it slid off the metal collar that's now stuck on my metal pipe is what remains. It's frozen to the pipe. I suspect its held on by corrosion and that if I heat it up with a propane torch for a few seconds it will pop off. But I won't know until I try.

But ... I've been afraid to try to remove the hose since I was able to pull the hose sections out from under the trans tunnel. I was able to find the secret nut holding the wiring junction block to the bracket at the back of the engine bay. But when I look back there all I see is a void below the row of electrical connectors. The 'Spider' or 'Octopus' heater hoses go under the trans tunnel on my car. (Sorry, no pic). I tried to pull and twist the hoses out (the hose with the backflow preventer valve is under the trans tunnel) but they only move a few inches left or right and then won't move any further. I was unable to pull them forward straight towards the front of the car either.

Are these hoses NOT supposed to go under the trans tunnel? Are they just supposed to sit in the void behind the bracket that the wiring junction block mounts to?

Anyway ... Since I couldn't get the old hose out of the car I slid the rubber hose back over the collar and put a screw-on type hose clamp over the rubber to hold it together and it works fine (so far). I've only driven the car around the block once since I've patched the leak. Less than a mile. I'm afraid to drive it any further until I get this stupid thing fixed.

(ps. I checked with SNG Barratt and found that the metal pipe is still available - special order - if I'm unable to separate the collar on my pipe with the propane torch).

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

My car is a 2000XK8, My leak was at the one way valve on the Octopus hose. The hose on my car was modified and the difficult norma connector was replaced with a jubilee clamp. Anyway after removing the intake tube, coolant tank and throttle body I got to work. The position of the ocotopus hose is under all the electrical jazz and is towards the rear of engine bay. There is a metal shield type structure on my car and the hose does run behind that. It was held in place with a black zip tie that was easy to cut with a pair of electical side cutters, dykes.
The two octopus hoses that connect to the heater pump? and held on with spring clamps where the first hose connections I released. When I removed the coolant tank you disconnect the octopus hose that is held on with a spring clamp. The simple norna connector that goes into the 3 way plastic connector is a simple clip on type. At this point all of the connections on the return side are free.

The big norma connector that fits on the metal pipe is all that is left. I did not have to deal with this connector. However the metal pipe it is connected to looks nothing like the image you have.Mine had a little corrosion but was straight with a slight ridge about 3/4 of a inch in. The fingers of the norma connector lock onto this ridge.

Once all the connections were free I removed the octopus hose from the coolant tank side.To install the new hose I again started on the coolant tank side and tied the two main hoses together and passed the nose in behind the transmission shield (or whatever it is). I then connected the return side first starting with the two heater pump connections. Then the norma clip on connection to the 3 way plastic connector, which on my car was it good shape. The 3 way has a hose that goes to the throttle body and the other to the return valley hose.I

On the other side with the metal tube I kept the norma connector and it did take a good amount of effort to seat it. its seems if I was to remove it I would break off all the fingers holding on to the ridge and then tap it off with a mallet. It seemed like the seal in the connector is a O ring.

In your case it seems you need to get a correct metal pipe on the input side, or remove the norma fitting and use a clamp and some hose... If you are going to use the Norma fitting as is I don't think the Norma fitting will work on your metal tube. . The metal tube plugs into the valley hose and is held on with two bolts. I think getting to those bolts could be blocked by the main intake manifold and fuel injectors. I imagine you could get that metal tube from a salvage yard as it should be the same on all AJ27 engines.

Also of course you will need a good set of clamp tools with a good cable reach.

Good Luck.

 

Thanks for the insight. My biggest concern was the placement of the hoses behind the wiring junction block/bracket at the rear of the engine. Since my hose is currently under the trans tunnel I assumed that I had to reinstall the new hose under the trans tunnel. But since I can't figure out how to remove the hose in one piece from under the tunnel it is obvious that I'd never be able to reinstall the new hose under the tunnel as a single piece.

BUT ... if the hose is only supposed to lay behind the junction block/bracket an impossible problem becomes VERY simple. I no longer need to worry about removing the old hose. There is enough room to fit 2 hoses behind the engine so I can simply disconnect the old hose (which I've done twice already), add the new hose behind the junction block, and attach the new hose appropriately. I'll probably cut the old hose at the 'Tee' section where the rubber hoses meet behind the passenger side head. I expect I'll be able to extract the hose end that attached behind the driver's head by pulling it through. The section of hose with the backflow valve will probably remain stuck under the trans tunnel. No big deal. I suspect it's been stuck there for the last 20 years. Maybe it'll come out after the other half of the hose is out but I really don't care. It shouldn't cause any problems leaving it where it is.

As for the new hose I'll add some cable ties to hold the hoses in place. I suspect I can thread them through the junction block bracket between the row of electrical connectors. I might use bare wire instead of cable ties, I'll figure it out when I get that far. Not sure if the nylon will melt from the heat trapped at the bottom/back of the engine bay. The wire should fare better.

The plastic 'Tee' behind the driver's head is cheap and should be simple to install. Since it's plastic and likely 20 years old I'd rather replace it now than face having to do this all over again in a year or two. When I was removing the 'Spider/Octopus' hose in my car both times I simply separated the rubber hoses from the two fittings on the 'Tee' and left the connection to the Norma fitting alone. I didn't risk breaking anything that way.

As far as the metal pipe goes I suspected that the Norma fitting had an O ring (or two) that provided the seal to the metal pipe. But I'm not so sure since I had to disassemble mine in order to remove it. I suspect that the rubber hose is sandwiched between the plastic shroud/collar on the outside and the metal collar on the inside. Weather there are O ring(s) between the metal pipe and the metal collar on my car I won't know until I've separated them with the propane torch. I've also ordered a new metal pipe from a Jaguar Dealer. The down side is that now I have to remove the intake in order to fit the 'Spider/Octopus' hose. Was hoping to work one problem at a time. Seems the car has other ideas.

Disappointed to hear it will take some force to install the Norma fitting on the metal pipe. If there are O ring(s) I'll try some vaseline and hope for the best. I suspect a new metal pipe should make it easier as well.

One last question please. It looks like there are two annuli (or ridges) at the Norma end of the metal pipe. Which of these ridges should the fitting mate up to? It looks like on my car the 4 'fingers' at the end of the fitting cover the 2nd of the two ridges. Is this correct? Or was my fitting pushed on too far and it should have stopped at the 1st ridge?

Thanks again for the insight. I think I now have a suitable plan for replacing this stupid part. It's a bigger pain in the @$$ than it should be.

 

Yeah it is a real pain. I would not use a propane torch in that area of any reason. If you damage the main electrical connectors in that area it would be a major problem. When you get the new tube you will see that it is smooth except for the maybe 1 mm ridge the Norma connector fingers hook on to. If you are going to use the norma, I did, then just put some silicon of liquid soap on the connection and its easy. The force to get the norma connector on to the metal tube is not that much , its just ackward.

Regarding the old octopus hose being jammed in the transmission tunnel I bet if you cut it up after disconnecting all clamps it will be easy to remove.

As far as putting in the new metal tube on the drivers side I hope you do not have to remove the engine intake mainfold.. I did replace my valley hoses and did remove the manifold and it was not that hard. Wilth the TB , intake tube and coolant tank out ot fhe way access is pretty good. You will need a fuel line seperator and a set of manifold gaskets. I strongly suggest a metal fuel line seperator tool. While you have that off it you do the valley hoses and the termostat tower are easy to replace.
Agian don't use the propane. As you are going to replace the metal tube there is really no reason to sweat removing the old norma connector. Just pull out the whole damn thing.

Good luck,
Dave

 

Thanks Dave. I don't plan on using propane in the engine bay. I'll take the metal pipe out before I hit it with propane. Hopefully in a vice. I also suspect that cutting up the old hose will allow me to get some of it out from under the trans tunnel. Hopefully much of it, better still all of it. But I won't know until I get that far (again).

So the metal pipe only has 1 ridge on it at the Norma end? It looks like there are two on the picture you posted. I guess when I get the new pipe I'll find out for sure.

I will simply remove everything both Norma fittings attach to. I may use the new pipe, maybe I'll use the old one if I can get the metal collar off. I'll find out then.

I have a set fuel line separator tools (metal). Hopefully one will fit. I've never tried the intake so it'll be a new experience. I'm not looking forward to it. I planned on it. I even bought under the intake hoses when I bought the 'Spider' hose & plastic 'Tee' (which I returned). I'll have to buy them again. Should be an interesting conversation.

I suspect I'll have to remove the intake to remove the bolts that attach the metal pipe. I'll take a look under the intake and see what my options are but I suspect I'll be pulling the intake.

And you are correct. With the Throttle Body removed access is pretty good. With the intake removed it will be better. I'll probably try and tackle the auxiliary hoses with the intake out. I want to do them too but I wasn't planning on doing all the heater hoses & radiator hoses at one sitting. It's a lot to cope with. At least for me.

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.

 

Here is the heater pipe the Norma connector goes on. As you can see the valley hose end has the bulge and the Norma fitting end is smooth except for the small ridge.
My octopus hose was made by Eurospare UK and fit with no issues.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with DD. Take the TB & inlet manifold off and do the valley hoses at the same time. It is MUCH easier to work on the plumbing with everything out of the way,

I would not attempt to re-use your existing metal pipe if you are intending to replace the octopus unless you plan is to dispense with the RHS Norma. The end of the pipe in your pic looks also to be flared somewhat and I think you would struggle to get the proper connector to either lock or seal properly.

Consider changing the biodegradeable thermostat tower for an aftermarket aluminium one 'while you're in there'.

 

Thanks all. I ordered a new pipe. It'll take a few days to get here. I re-ordered the hoses again. They'll take a while too. The car had the aluminum thermostat housing when I bought it so I don't have to diddle with that.

The end of the pipe looks strange because the collar from the old Norma connector/coupling/clamp has fused to the pipe. I need to get it out of the car to see if I can separate it with propane. I suspect it will pop right off when I do. How bad the metal pipe has deteriorated from the migration between the two metals I won't know until I get it out and the collar separated. I'll use the new pipe if the old one is too far gone. If not I'll reuse the old one and return the new one.

I'm not sure if I need to remove the intake to remove the pipe bolts (2). I can see the #%^! things under there but that doesn't mean I can get at them without pulling the intake. I have the intake hoses & I plan on doing them 'soon' but if I don't have to pull the intake to get the Spider/Octopus hose resolved I won't. But something tells me I'm going to be pulling the intake.

Thanks again.