Oil Burning Newby Question
#23
Oil Consumption Update
Not exactly sure what is going on, but I'm not complaining.
After 17,000 miles in 10 months, oil consumption has been steadily going down, and is currently around 1200 mi per quart and improving.
I'm still just adding about one once of Marvel Mystery Oil to each gas fill-up and using Penzoil 10w-30 High Mileage.
Because of the mysterious positive trend, I haven't begun adding Restore yet. I'm going to wait until consumption levels out and then see what difference it makes from that point.
BTW: The consumption rate has dropped so much I've had to abandon my earlier "never change the oil" plan (this is of course, a GOOD thing!).
After 17,000 miles in 10 months, oil consumption has been steadily going down, and is currently around 1200 mi per quart and improving.
I'm still just adding about one once of Marvel Mystery Oil to each gas fill-up and using Penzoil 10w-30 High Mileage.
Because of the mysterious positive trend, I haven't begun adding Restore yet. I'm going to wait until consumption levels out and then see what difference it makes from that point.
BTW: The consumption rate has dropped so much I've had to abandon my earlier "never change the oil" plan (this is of course, a GOOD thing!).
#24
#25
Not exactly sure what is going on, but I'm not complaining.
After 17,000 miles in 10 months, oil consumption has been steadily going down, and is currently around 1200 mi per quart and improving.
I'm still just adding about one once of Marvel Mystery Oil to each gas fill-up and using Penzoil 10w-30 High Mileage.
Because of the mysterious positive trend, I haven't begun adding Restore yet. I'm going to wait until consumption levels out and then see what difference it makes from that point.
BTW: The consumption rate has dropped so much I've had to abandon my earlier "never change the oil" plan (this is of course, a GOOD thing!).
After 17,000 miles in 10 months, oil consumption has been steadily going down, and is currently around 1200 mi per quart and improving.
I'm still just adding about one once of Marvel Mystery Oil to each gas fill-up and using Penzoil 10w-30 High Mileage.
Because of the mysterious positive trend, I haven't begun adding Restore yet. I'm going to wait until consumption levels out and then see what difference it makes from that point.
BTW: The consumption rate has dropped so much I've had to abandon my earlier "never change the oil" plan (this is of course, a GOOD thing!).
And the MMO is freeing up the oil control rings while the 10W30 is a bit better at sealing than the previous oil. In addition, the high mileage formulation may contain helpful additives to swell seals as well as additional detergency. Not to mention the fact that the Pennzoil is generally considered an excellent quality oil.
BTW, you may want to visit the fuel additives section of bitog and see what they consider to be the "ideal" ratio of MMO to add. Or, see the posts about TC-W3 two stroke oil as a fuel additive here and at bitog.
Last edited by plums; 05-11-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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vonbunn (08-19-2013)
#26
Few of us drive our cats as much (or as routinely) as I do. I bought it to drive and enjoy without reservation. I'm the fourth owner. The first two were limited by lease restrictions and the third one lived in New England, so it is possible that the car hasn't seen this type of extended highway driving in a long time, if ever. I'm hopeful that your theory is correct and the improvements continue.
Someone also recommended Lucas Oil Treatment. Anyone out there have any experience with the stuff? But,as with the Restore, I'm not planning to use anything until the improvements level off.
Someone also recommended Lucas Oil Treatment. Anyone out there have any experience with the stuff? But,as with the Restore, I'm not planning to use anything until the improvements level off.
#27
The Lucas distributor paid out on a claim for damage caused by their PS additive without argument. Cost them a new pump, lines and labour. That was the one time I bought anything from their product line.
Restore is an entirely different animal.
The reason for the suggestion on visiting bitog is that they seem to recommend a higher concentration of MMO than you are using.
BTW, on Shell Rotella 15W40 my consumption is zero in 8K miles.
Restore is an entirely different animal.
The reason for the suggestion on visiting bitog is that they seem to recommend a higher concentration of MMO than you are using.
BTW, on Shell Rotella 15W40 my consumption is zero in 8K miles.
Last edited by plums; 05-12-2013 at 06:19 AM.
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vonbunn (08-19-2013)
#28
#30
Oil Burning Update
I finally took the time to do a compression check. (Boy, do I miss my MGB - a comp check took half an hour!) I even did the comp check with the engine cold, so I'd get the worst possible results.
Good news: all the cylinders were between 112 & 117 PSI - six of them between 115 & 117. So the rings and valve seats are in good shape it seems. I'm not used to numbers that low, but this is the first blown engine I've worked on.
Bad news: all the plugs on the right bank were fouled pretty badly - much worse than last summer when I put new plugs in. So it looks like the head will be coming off for valve seals. She's still running way too good to bother with it anytime soon though - it can wait.
Anyone have an idea how much that might cost if I drop the head(s) off at the shop? What's a good source for the valve seals and all the gaskets I'll need for reassembly?
On another note: I put 16oz of MMO in the crankcase some months ago. My gas mileage soared (as mentioned in another thread), but my oil consumption immediately went up as well. Right back to 1qt per 5 or 6 hundred miles. I expected the possibility of some increase due to MMO's lower viscosity, but not THAT much. 3K miles and a few additional quarts of Penzoil 10w-30 HM later, and consumption is back to over 1K miles between quarts.
When I get the head(s) done and oil consumption is no longer a factor, I am definitely putting the MMO back in the crankcase - that gas mileage was amazing.
Good news: all the cylinders were between 112 & 117 PSI - six of them between 115 & 117. So the rings and valve seats are in good shape it seems. I'm not used to numbers that low, but this is the first blown engine I've worked on.
Bad news: all the plugs on the right bank were fouled pretty badly - much worse than last summer when I put new plugs in. So it looks like the head will be coming off for valve seals. She's still running way too good to bother with it anytime soon though - it can wait.
Anyone have an idea how much that might cost if I drop the head(s) off at the shop? What's a good source for the valve seals and all the gaskets I'll need for reassembly?
On another note: I put 16oz of MMO in the crankcase some months ago. My gas mileage soared (as mentioned in another thread), but my oil consumption immediately went up as well. Right back to 1qt per 5 or 6 hundred miles. I expected the possibility of some increase due to MMO's lower viscosity, but not THAT much. 3K miles and a few additional quarts of Penzoil 10w-30 HM later, and consumption is back to over 1K miles between quarts.
When I get the head(s) done and oil consumption is no longer a factor, I am definitely putting the MMO back in the crankcase - that gas mileage was amazing.
Last edited by scardini1; 08-16-2013 at 10:24 PM.
#32
Opinions vary (of course ), but I've used NAPA Gold for years with no problems.
That said, I had previously used Frams for decades, until it seemed as if their design and build quality started to slip. Don't really know if that's true.
Studies show that there "are" differences, but if you change your oil and filter often enough, they may not matter.
BTW: That's a mighty good looking car you've picked up. I wrestled with buying the 4.0 VDP and the Super V8 before lust over powered logic and I got the XKR. ENJOY!
That said, I had previously used Frams for decades, until it seemed as if their design and build quality started to slip. Don't really know if that's true.
Studies show that there "are" differences, but if you change your oil and filter often enough, they may not matter.
BTW: That's a mighty good looking car you've picked up. I wrestled with buying the 4.0 VDP and the Super V8 before lust over powered logic and I got the XKR. ENJOY!
#34
Thanks Al. I do live in fear of that.
I believe I figured out a way to replace the valve seals without taking the heads off. Ought to make a nice weekend project. That will be the most affordable option. I'll want to adjust the valve clearances while I'm in there, but I'll need to find a source for the new shims. Does anyone have a source for these things?
I'll also need the procedure for setting the cam timings.
Thanks all - Jim
I believe I figured out a way to replace the valve seals without taking the heads off. Ought to make a nice weekend project. That will be the most affordable option. I'll want to adjust the valve clearances while I'm in there, but I'll need to find a source for the new shims. Does anyone have a source for these things?
I'll also need the procedure for setting the cam timings.
Thanks all - Jim
#36
If you are burning oil then you have a choice of the most COMMON causes. There are other less common causes of course.
Worn/stuck/broken rings
Oil return holes behind the oil control ring gunged up with carbon
Worn/scored cylinder walls
Worn valve guides
Worn Valve stem oil seals
A leak down + compression test and a blow by measurement will focus in on the problem.
No amount of snake oil/higher viscosity oil will fix worn parts. Stuck rings and restricted piston oil return holes can be improved. There is various stuff that claims to work. I'm a traditionalist so I pull the plugs and fill the cylinders with a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Then soak for 3 to 5 days topping off as required. Some people like to use diesel or Sea Foam.
One of your comments that you see smoke on acceleration may point to worn valve guides and/or oil seals. I've not torn an XK head apart but on most cars the valve stem seals can be replaced without removing the head.
I have a valve spring compressor for in-service valve spring removal. I use rope down the plug hole and then bring that cylinder to TDC. Compressed air works but not as well as rope..
Worn/stuck/broken rings
Oil return holes behind the oil control ring gunged up with carbon
Worn/scored cylinder walls
Worn valve guides
Worn Valve stem oil seals
A leak down + compression test and a blow by measurement will focus in on the problem.
No amount of snake oil/higher viscosity oil will fix worn parts. Stuck rings and restricted piston oil return holes can be improved. There is various stuff that claims to work. I'm a traditionalist so I pull the plugs and fill the cylinders with a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Then soak for 3 to 5 days topping off as required. Some people like to use diesel or Sea Foam.
One of your comments that you see smoke on acceleration may point to worn valve guides and/or oil seals. I've not torn an XK head apart but on most cars the valve stem seals can be replaced without removing the head.
I have a valve spring compressor for in-service valve spring removal. I use rope down the plug hole and then bring that cylinder to TDC. Compressed air works but not as well as rope..
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scardini1 (08-21-2013)
#37
Thanks Gerry. I was planning on doing the rope in the cylinders trick as well. I would imagine that's the cheapest and quickest possible thing to address - so I'll give that a try first (I learned a long time ago to do "cheap" things first!).
Is your list in "Probability Order"? Hope not - the stem seals are last (cringe)
What / where is the oil return hole? The fact that an entire cylinder bank has uniformly fouled plugs leads me to search for things that would be common to those four cylinders and exclude the other bank entirely.
Is your list in "Probability Order"? Hope not - the stem seals are last (cringe)
What / where is the oil return hole? The fact that an entire cylinder bank has uniformly fouled plugs leads me to search for things that would be common to those four cylinders and exclude the other bank entirely.
#38
#39
Thanks Gerry. I was planning on doing the rope in the cylinders trick as well. I would imagine that's the cheapest and quickest possible thing to address - so I'll give that a try first (I learned a long time ago to do "cheap" things first!).
Is your list in "Probability Order"? Hope not - the stem seals are last (cringe)
What / where is the oil return hole? The fact that an entire cylinder bank has uniformly fouled plugs leads me to search for things that would be common to those four cylinders and exclude the other bank entirely.
Is your list in "Probability Order"? Hope not - the stem seals are last (cringe)
What / where is the oil return hole? The fact that an entire cylinder bank has uniformly fouled plugs leads me to search for things that would be common to those four cylinders and exclude the other bank entirely.
There are usually holes in the piston behind the oil scraper ring where the scavenged oil from the cylinder wall is returned to the sump. Quite a few cars ( no idea about the Jag ) have a problem with the oil return holes getting gunked up and not allowing all the scavenged oil to return to the sump. They then burn prodigious amounts of oil with good compression numbers. Seems to be an issue where dino oil is used with extended change intervals and a hot running and poorly vented engine...aka sludge problems. VW, GM, MB and BMW all had problems with sludge, thats one reason they specify synthetic only oil now. I have made a few $$ buying low mileage cars at auction that are burning oil and then treating them to a 50/50 ATF and acetone soak.
Your compression number seem low for a Jag XK8 engine I would think 170 - 185 psi would be more in line with the Jags CR. Others on this board will no doubt have the answer to that one.
Good luck, but I suspect that an engine rebuild is probably in your future, or an LS1/T5 drop in :-)
#40
[QUOTE=scardini1;793113]I finally took the time to do a compression check. (Boy, do I miss my MGB - a comp check took half an hour!) I even did the comp check with the engine cold, so I'd get the worst possible results.
Good news: all the cylinders were between 112 & 117 PSI - six of them between 115 & 117. So the rings and valve seats are in good shape it seems. I'm not used to numbers that low, but this is the first blown engine I've worked on.
QUOTE]
Try some engine oil down one cylinder to start with and run the compression test again. If the compression goes up, then you possibly have worn/stuck rings and/or worn cylinders. A leak down test is the best way to see what is going on.
If that is the case a cylinder soak may help, but be warned this will clean ALL the carbon from the piston and and the piston ring lands. I have had engines that were only running because the carbon was providing a seal and a good clean out was enough to kill them..Same problem if you use BG Engine Flush on a worn engine. Been there done that.... several times.
As for the Shell Rotella issue, I use the synthetic Rotella T6 5W40. Its the detergent package in CD rated oils that help with carbon build up and sticky rings. If you have money to burn, then go with the Mobil Delvac 1. IMHO it is the best oil available. OK... Red Line is good as well.
Good news: all the cylinders were between 112 & 117 PSI - six of them between 115 & 117. So the rings and valve seats are in good shape it seems. I'm not used to numbers that low, but this is the first blown engine I've worked on.
QUOTE]
Try some engine oil down one cylinder to start with and run the compression test again. If the compression goes up, then you possibly have worn/stuck rings and/or worn cylinders. A leak down test is the best way to see what is going on.
If that is the case a cylinder soak may help, but be warned this will clean ALL the carbon from the piston and and the piston ring lands. I have had engines that were only running because the carbon was providing a seal and a good clean out was enough to kill them..Same problem if you use BG Engine Flush on a worn engine. Been there done that.... several times.
As for the Shell Rotella issue, I use the synthetic Rotella T6 5W40. Its the detergent package in CD rated oils that help with carbon build up and sticky rings. If you have money to burn, then go with the Mobil Delvac 1. IMHO it is the best oil available. OK... Red Line is good as well.