I had been getting P0171, P0174 error codes for a while and the occasional "reduced performance" on the dash. I cleaned the MAF sensor but no good. So I took off the air intake duct to clean the throttle body, and look what I found... I'm pretty sure that will cause an air leak problem!

Anyone have any bright ideas? One idea I had was to see if I can cut off that candy-cane thing and replace it with a PVC pipe cap that I will epoxy over the remaining part of the tube. What does everyone think about PVC under the hood...?

Also, anyone know the part number of this thing for a 2006 XKR? I have searched the Jaguar parts list and it looks like it should be a C2N002490 but I can't find that part number anywhere. When I search by year and model I can't get a hit on it. Called the jag dealer, he didn't give me the part number, but said it was $330, special order...

 

damn but should be a easy fix if you have to just plug it somehow.

 

Looks like a job for duct tape.

 

marcgr, I would be more concerned about what made this hole or wear in the tube. I was going to say cut it to a even rectangle and replace with PVC, but not many glues will stand up to the kind of heat that is in that area.


Wayne

 

Too many 0's - correct part# C2N2490 - price is too high.
An example AIR PIPE | Genuine Jaguar | C2N2490

 

Hope this does not sound silly but have you thought about cutting it straight off below the hole then taking a look at plumbing supplies for a blanking plug you can glue in? Or if the hole is an odd size for plumbing you could put something larger over, and outside, of it and glue that down?

Just a thought. Hope it helps

 

Go for an aftermarket/custom intake pipe instead, probably be cheaper and more reliable.

 

I would try PVC and high temp epoxy. If that doesn't work, then you can always go the more expensive route.

 

Something like this https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/p...e-pipe-101766/

Or there are similar options from Mina, Paragon Design, a few others as well.

 

If you want to keep it original, an option is to ring a few panel beaters and find one that does plastic welding. They should be able to fit a patch onto it.

 

1.) Go out to your garage or shed 2.) grab a used/empty plastic quart of oil container 3.) cut out a piece that is the shape and size of the hole 4.) get a syringe of jb weld plastic weld epoxy and glue it in using glue generously, practically paint it on there 5.) save up a couple of bucks in the meantime while driving codeless for a new intake tube oem, aftermarket, or custom You could also cut the silencer off all together and just glue a piece over the hole. Did it on my Dad's 02' XKR while he waited for an intake tube, but he never replaced it and its still going strong. I figure the plastic used for oil containers are oil resistant enough to withstand the oil that coats the intake tube via the full-load breather hose and are not dissolvable when exposed and jb plastiweld can endure the heat in that area no problem. If you examine the bellows on the oem tube the plastic is no thicker than a oil quart container anyways. On that note, I would still get a new tube. Good luck and i'm glad you found the trouble!

 

I recall some guy here once-upon-a-time had a write-up with pictures that showed how he cut off all of those weird noise dampers and capped the holes that were left in the tube. I forget what he used to cover the holes but if you search maybe you can find the post.


EDIT: Found it https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-w-pics-58619/

Alternatively you can get one of those metal pipes from Chris at Mina Gallery. I looked at them at his shop and they look pretty slick--I will be getting one soon.

Doug

 

Thanks for all the replies!

Doug (Seismic Guy) - Extra thanks!! I didn't realize Polypropylene was so easy to heat weld. That is definitely the way to do it.

Wayne - you are right, what made that hole? This part of the air intake is right above the catalytic converter. Another thread said that there's supposed to be a heat shield there but they often get removed and not replaced when people work on the engine. I don't see it. I am going to jury-rig my own.

Thanks to Craig for helping me with that part number - I don't know why the Jag parts diagram had the 2 extra zero's in there, but Craig helped me to find the correct one cheaper, should I need it, just over $200 vs $330 from the local dealer.

Folks who suggested glue - apparently Polypropylene is almost as hard to bond to as teflon. I went to 2 different places to find a glue that was rated for Polypropylene and every kind of epoxy says not to use on polypropylene. One place had one kind that was rated for PP, but it was cyanoacrylate based (plus an activator to make it work on PP) and so not gap-filling. JB weld makes two different products, Plastiweld epoxy (50132) that is widely available but not rated for PP, and "Plastic Bonder" 2-part urethane (50133) that is rated for PP but hard to find.

As for custom pipes... they're priced higher than the OEM pipe.

As for aftermarket pipes... as I've perused the threads, people really like the smoothness and airflow properties of the OEM pipe. It's clearly a CAD masterpiece. I don't want to replace that with a stretch-to-fit accordion.

Thanks again all!

 

So, just an update, it is fixed...

Polypropylene is NOT easy to heat weld. Next time I try, I might just pop down to the 9th level of hell to collect some of Beelzebub's own toe-jam, it would be easier to work with!

The problems with heat-welding polypropylene:
1) NOTHING sticks to it. Hot melted polypropylene does not stick to polypropylene. Whaaa?
2) It has almost no thermal mass. As soon as you get it hot, it cools almost instantly.
3) Don't even think about trying to fill gaps with it. The method described in the post referred to by Seismicguy shows some gap-filling, but it really doesn't work like that.
4) A butt joint is almost impossible for the above reasons.

I tried it one time the way described in the referred post and using a soldering iron for heat. I will say that my cut wasn't perfectly straight, but nevertheless the properties of polypropylene meant that even with using some offcuts to melt with some fillers, I got a butt joint complete by appearance, but it had no physical strength and it just snapped right off.

On my second attempt, I cut it straighter, flipped the end over so that I was welding the cut end of the tube to the flat end of the tube, and switched heat sources from a soldering iron to a blow torch.

I got the cut end good and hot - actually on fire in fact - which I was quite happy with as I knew it was being kept warm. Then I tried to get some heat into the other side and melted the surface a little, and then joined the two sides.

Now, in the spirit of "anything worth doing, is worth overdoing", I coated the lower part of the repair with the plastic epoxy I had bought and then I slipped some 1 1/2" schedule 40 PVC pipe (pre-primed with purple primer) over the repair. Then I ran some PVC cement around the interior of the pipe to try to melt it to the epoxy a little. Then when that was dry, a layer of silicone caulk on top of the repair (inside the pipe) to make the whole thing air-tight, and for good measure, a PVC pipe cap sealed on with PVC primer and cement.

A circle of cement tile backerboard epoxied on to the PVC pipe cap forms a heat shield.

Pictures below. You can't say I didn't try!!

 

And fuel trims show it worked? But you're going to re-check every few (er, weeks, say)?

 

We have been buying our 4.0 liter intake tubes from World Pac. I think they run about $100 or so. Not sure if that 2006 tube is the same as the 4 liter ones.

 

put something over the hole & maybe wrap it good with some of this...might be able to buy same thing elsewhere for less money:
3M 431 High Temp Aluminum Foil Tape





http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds



GL,


frank in fl

 

So I was getting P0171 and P0174 and reduced performance again (it's now 3.5 years later...)

Removed the duct and found my repair has held for the last 3.5 years! No new air holes that I can detect.

Decided to clean the butterfly and throttle body again, and they're pretty dirty again. Also noticed some oil below the butterfly in the throttle body. My guess here is that there's some breather for crankcase or exhaust gases and they're somehow condensing on the throttle body and turning into deposits? I don't see any other way for new dirt to get in, since I know I cleaned it 3.5 years ago and the air filter is good. Also cleaned the MAF.

Anyway, I reset the OBD, and have had no new OBD codes since. And it seems to be running more smoothly. Wondering if the P0171 and P0174 were caused by a dirty throttle body and butterfly all along?

I guess I'll add "clean throttle body" to the maintenance list for December 2022...

 

This is an old thread mostly. Just saw the post from Chopr who says he buys from world pac. If you're still around Chopr please tell us how.

I recently had to replace the black plastic piece that holds the temp sensor in the coolant plumbing. When that's cracked you need it right away. It's an expensive part.

I was lucky my mechanic offered to order one from his supplier world pac. Same day delivery. When I went to pick it up, he did a quick calculation out loud: "I bought it for $x, I'll sell it to you for $y." I JUMPED on it! $X was 1/5th of list price - "y" was less than 2/5ths! Whew I knew there was markup involved, but didn't expect to see this much. With the mechanics help I bought the part for well less than 1/2 of what everyone listed it for.

Well as you can imagine my next move was to see how I could buy from world pac. No go. They pretty much demand you prove you're a functioning car business and you must set up and purchase with your credit line with them.

So, if you've got a way chopr let us know please. From what I've seen with my mechanic, these guys stock everything for same day delivery!

John