Does anyone know of a supplier that sells the front subframe bush in poly? Is it better to keep this bush as metallastic instead? I'm about to order the parts for changing the Vee-mounts and wanted to tackle those bushes as well.

Is it necessary to remove and drain the steering rack for this job? Can the subframe be removed without removing the steering rack?

 

l don't think you will get some of those torx fasteners holding V mounts without moving both lower control arm and steering rack, but total removal is not needed and certainly no need to drain the system.
Depends in part how stuck they are.

 

That's true for the Vee-mounts, but the round front subframe bush that needs to be pressed in will almost certainly require removal of the subframe. Given that its a 17 year old car and I will have ¾ of the job done just for the Vee-mounts, why not also do those bushes?

Also, the JTIS for just the Vee-mounts makes no mention of removing the front lower control arms, but for the subframe bushes, it does mention removing the entire subframe from the car.

 

Keep it metallastic.... I would not want a polyurethane bush there as it will transmit alllllll kinds of and more vibration into the car. IMHO, the potential for bad vibes from the front sub is already too great from all sorts O bits and pieces.

For the steering rack, just undo the 4 13mm bolts that hold the rack to the subframe and let it hang there.

Be VERY careful undoing the 4 torque bolts per side for the mounts. And in-fact if you are going to remove the entire subframe I would wait until it's completely out before putting a tool on those torx bokts. They are a small sized torque bolt and like the ones on the trans pan, face down and exposed to the elements for 17 years or whatever, they can and will strip and can cause a bunch O pain. Ask me how I know.

Try and spray some penetration fluid on all bolts that go into the body of the car 2 or 3 times over a few days before doing the job. It helps.

Removing the subframe was surprisingly easy and I am super interested in your progress/process at pressing the bushings in and out. Ive never done it. I had considered whether it was possible to do with the subframe IN place but considering how easy it is (with engine support) to remove the sub frame it is the way to go. Looking forward to pictures and whatever other information you can offer upif you go forward

BTW. If you can pop all 4 ball joints and just let the entire knuckle and brake assembly hang (it's pretty heavy) from the spring with a heavy wire it makes the subframe far less cumbersome when lowering and raising on removal and install... Jus say'n.

 

Regarding lowering and raising the subframe, I was thinking of using a motorcycle jack I have lying around. It seems to me like that would allow me to spread the load more evenly. I hope I don't strip anything. My car has no rust at all from the exhaustive search I have done.

I was thinking that I don't want to deal with the ball-joints at all (don't want to rent ball-joint separator tools), nor remove the brake lines and having to deal with bleeding brakes. I wonder, can I remove the shock bottom bolt and thus leave the shocks in place and use wire to suspend the brake caliper from the springs? By doing that, can I lower the subframe with both upper lower control arms and knuckle attached? When removing the subframe, can I leave the steering rack on the car, possibly hanging or supported with something? I hope I can press out the subframe mounts with a C-clamp style press. I don't have a hydraulic press available to me.

Since the front mounts are on backorder from SNG, this seems like it will take a while before I can have it done, although I haven't checked other vendors.

 

It is possible to do the front subframe bushes in place. I did these along with engine mounts recently and was planning on the V mounts also, had new ones on hand but decided there was no need.
My fronts were totally shot though and being plastic body it was not hard splitting outer shell which made removal easy. New were pressed in with ball joint clamp and a bit of improvisation.

 

Short answer to all them questions is, Yes... And if you have a motorcycle style jack, if it angles fore and aft, it should make life easy-er-ish... It's a big chunk, especially with the knuckles, rotors and all, in place. I've had good luck with the simple 10-12$ separator tool and a hammer to give them a wack once the pressure is on. But doing it without removing everything seems completely doable, just a bit more cumbersome, especially on reassembly. Things have to be just so,,, but the subframe does a pretty amazing job of finding it's home. The rear mounts are guided by a centering mound on the body of the car.

The bolts stripping, the torx teeth inside the bolt head, was not a rust thing as much as a weathered age thing. PITA.

I would love to hear more about doing the fronts with the subframe in place Bax... Pictures would be awesome if ya got.

Looking forward to seeing the progress when you get going.

 

Good to know that it's doable. This seems like it will be a project that will take up a few weekends but will be worth it. I crawled under the car today to take a few pictures and show you guys a few of the findings. From the pictures, do you guys agree with me that the fronts round subframe mounts are also shot and need replacing?



This looks like a small headache. Driver's side subframe bracket bolt was ground down by the road back when the suspension collapsed a couple years ago.



The passenger side looks better, but not by much. Will definitely buy those bolts.



The front subframe mounts don't look too bad in this view...



Same with this one.



Here I can see some cracking on the rubber.



This view reveals more damage from the mounts. I feel more comfortable with replacing them than leaving them as is, however difficult it will be to do so.



Same with this one.



The torx bolts don't look too bad. I hope I don't shear them.



That torx bolt looks like a tight fit to get at without removing the lower control arm.



Again, I can now see why the steering rack has to be moved.



Nothing too bad here.



That center bolt looks quite clean and easy to get to.



Same with this one.



It looks like some oil has made it to this bolt.



The rubber on that Vee-mount is looking very sad.



This says it all, that Vee-mount is dry-rotted. These are definitely the cause of my vague steering.

 

Don't mean to sound like an alarmist, I'm not. I will say, and for what it's worth, try and spend some days dousing ALL of those bolts, especially the larger ones that go into the body of the car, with a good penetrant of your choice... The job actually doesn't take long and is not hard BUT there is nothing like a sheared off bolt that will take a "regular" job into some whole OTHER direction. No no fun.

Remember, the threads for the rear mounts are IN the mount themselves. 8 of them threaded into the mount. About a half inch or mores worth. It's what you can't see here. I replaced mine with stainless hex bolts on reinstall. Like the 20 or so trans pan torx bolts the can and will strip out if not careful.

Lol,,, maybe I AM an alarmist hahaha...?

 

Don't have any pics of the job but do have one of the old bushes and a mock up of what l used to install replacements.
Requires a couple of little tricks in placing C clamp due to limited space available. Probably not possible to press old mounts out in situ so splitting old to remove is required.
By removing intake tube and just loosening off the centre bolt in rear V mounts the crossmember can pivot down at front to give just enough space for job.

Mock up of pressing in set up.

This mount actually appeared serviceable from under car. Centre piece pulled out with very little effort, plastic casing was then weaked and split, it then more or less fell out

C clamp suspension kit used

 

Right on... Awesome, Baxtor!
Thank you.

I think splitting bushings is always easier - at least when it is anyways - when there is room. Cool

 

That is amazing Baxtor! I may just attempt that to see if I can make it work. If I can make it work then I will post a guide on it. If not, then I will remove the subframe in its entirety.

Also, am I to understand that the bush housing is plastic? That would certainly make splitting it much easier.

 

Outer casing is plastic, still reasonably tough. I used a hacksaw blade to cut partway through and then an old screwdriver with sharpened tip for final breakthrough.
If you go ahead a couple of observations. The centre bolt screws into a threaded spigot which protrudes from the bottom surface of the frame rail. The C clamp needs to be slid into the gap created by lowering crossmember and then lifted so spigot enters hole in clamp, this will give enough room to slip support piece between clamp and crossmember top face.
The ring shown in my mockup is only needed for last step of pressing in due to the mount protruding beyond flush on top, l pressed to flush with just steel support and then pressed the final 1/4" or so with ring in position.