Readiness and the drive cycle
#41
For an idea of the kinds of things it's testing and in what ways etc, grab
www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC-jag/obd2.pdf
I think you should be able to find out for sure what your state does / does not allow as regards unset (incomplete) OBD monitors, though from over here I don't know how you find that out. If they actually allow one unset, as is common, there must be a way to appeal or insist they actually obey their own rules / state laws. Worth finding out maybe.
Unless there's a TSB for a reflash for your car that fixes an OBD issue (I don't know - but worth finding out if anyone knows) then your car has a fault of some kind that's blocking the OBD monitor from posting an OK. The PDF above is a guide to all the testing but I wouldn't fancy trying to figure the problem, sorry!
www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC-jag/obd2.pdf
I think you should be able to find out for sure what your state does / does not allow as regards unset (incomplete) OBD monitors, though from over here I don't know how you find that out. If they actually allow one unset, as is common, there must be a way to appeal or insist they actually obey their own rules / state laws. Worth finding out maybe.
Unless there's a TSB for a reflash for your car that fixes an OBD issue (I don't know - but worth finding out if anyone knows) then your car has a fault of some kind that's blocking the OBD monitor from posting an OK. The PDF above is a guide to all the testing but I wouldn't fancy trying to figure the problem, sorry!
Last edited by JagV8; 02-25-2014 at 02:32 AM.
#42
Thanks for that. There's a lot of stuff going on in there!
There is an appeal process in NJ on the "comprehensive component" thing, but it's a royal PITA. You have to get documentation on the drive cycle for your particular car, and certify that you've performed it as best you can, and they want something from a dealer and then you send this stuff off to a high tribunal somewhere.
Then they authorize a traditional tailpipe sniffer test in place of the OBD II test. This clearly makes no sense because the sniffer can at best duplicate some of the stuff coming out of OBD (all OK on my car).
Coasting periods seem to be an important part of the cycle. And running in 3rd gear. And cold starts. I guess I'll try to maximize these for another week or two and see what happens.
There is an appeal process in NJ on the "comprehensive component" thing, but it's a royal PITA. You have to get documentation on the drive cycle for your particular car, and certify that you've performed it as best you can, and they want something from a dealer and then you send this stuff off to a high tribunal somewhere.
Then they authorize a traditional tailpipe sniffer test in place of the OBD II test. This clearly makes no sense because the sniffer can at best duplicate some of the stuff coming out of OBD (all OK on my car).
Coasting periods seem to be an important part of the cycle. And running in 3rd gear. And cold starts. I guess I'll try to maximize these for another week or two and see what happens.
Last edited by Dennis07; 02-25-2014 at 06:23 AM.
#43
Aha!
So I went out for an hour or so and concentrated on the "3rd gear, then coast" elements of the drive cycle. Also did the 10 minute idle after cold start that is called for. I had not done any of this earlier.
Maybe a coincidence, but my scanner now says I'm good to go. We'll see if the inspection station agrees, but I feel good about it. Later this week I hope.
Thanks to all for the info and suggestions.
Maybe a coincidence, but my scanner now says I'm good to go. We'll see if the inspection station agrees, but I feel good about it. Later this week I hope.
Thanks to all for the info and suggestions.
#44
Just a quick postscript:
The car passed inspection, the "comprehensive component" of the OBD II data having flipped from not-ready to ready. I hope this info will be of value if anyone finds themselves with the same issue. Two takeaways:
- Doing the drive-cycle prescribed in JTIS seemed to make the difference. (It's a big coincidence otherwise.) It resulted in the "comprehensive component" being set, which is needed for inspection, at least here in NJ.
- Several items in the drive cycle are not things we would end up doing in everyday driving ... things like driving in 3rd gear at prescribed RPMs and then coasting. Why this would matter, I have no clue, but it seemed to do the trick.
FWIW.
The car passed inspection, the "comprehensive component" of the OBD II data having flipped from not-ready to ready. I hope this info will be of value if anyone finds themselves with the same issue. Two takeaways:
- Doing the drive-cycle prescribed in JTIS seemed to make the difference. (It's a big coincidence otherwise.) It resulted in the "comprehensive component" being set, which is needed for inspection, at least here in NJ.
- Several items in the drive cycle are not things we would end up doing in everyday driving ... things like driving in 3rd gear at prescribed RPMs and then coasting. Why this would matter, I have no clue, but it seemed to do the trick.
FWIW.
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GGG (02-28-2014)
#45
Downside is now the neighbours probably all think you're nuts with this "3rd gear, then coast" driving.
Graham
#46
Congrats on completing the drive cycle I've been trying to clear this code for over a yr - I stopped after going to dealer they said it not a big deal & nj allows one component not to be ready which they where right I went to Rahway dmv with out me saying anything I pass the paper did state one component was not ready - but allow only one - but I really would like to clear this code cause when I decide to sell I know it's going to be a headache trying to convince someone about this -
I tried it on parkway turnpike long no light road still did not clear for me
I tried it on parkway turnpike long no light road still did not clear for me
#47
Magic,
Now I'm really confused. I failed at the Washington inspection station, where the guy said that the "comprehensive" component had to pass ... not covered by the "one failure allowed" rule. Gave me a printout saying pretty much the same.
Is the "comprehensive readiness" component the one you have a problem with?
I had done hundreds of miles of all kinds of driving without clearing the problem. But about 1/2 hour of doing the weird stuff called for in the Drive Cycle seemed to do the trick.
BTW ... what MY? My car is an '03 (need to update my profile ... not the '01 shown there).
Now I'm really confused. I failed at the Washington inspection station, where the guy said that the "comprehensive" component had to pass ... not covered by the "one failure allowed" rule. Gave me a printout saying pretty much the same.
Is the "comprehensive readiness" component the one you have a problem with?
I had done hundreds of miles of all kinds of driving without clearing the problem. But about 1/2 hour of doing the weird stuff called for in the Drive Cycle seemed to do the trick.
BTW ... what MY? My car is an '03 (need to update my profile ... not the '01 shown there).
Last edited by Dennis07; 03-01-2014 at 09:04 AM.
#48
I had serious problems with an 2000 XK8L passing our emissions test a few years ago and remembered my local Jaguar dealer gave me a sequence to complete the drive cycle in the shortest possible time. Found it on a backup CD:
Attachment 16430
Note the warning at the end that it can take 5 complete drive cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.
I followed the instructions and the car did pass.
There's no reference to this sequence on JTIS but the US EPA did publish something similar at one time. It may have come from there originally or be something my local dealer's techs came up with to solve a problem.
Graham
Attachment 16430
Note the warning at the end that it can take 5 complete drive cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.
I followed the instructions and the car did pass.
There's no reference to this sequence on JTIS but the US EPA did publish something similar at one time. It may have come from there originally or be something my local dealer's techs came up with to solve a problem.
Graham
Ok I know this thread is old. But I'm sorry, Drive Cycle? Really? My XKR still won't pass due to Comprehensive Component not ready. So I should park my Jaguar out on the Garden State Parkway overnight to complete this "Drive Cycle" as written? I'm bumming out
Last August the car was delivered and there was an O2 sensor replaced codes cleared, and the battery may have died prior to arrival. From August 2014 to October 2014 still did not pass.
The XKR went into a heated gargage and Ctek kept up with the battery until the battery failed in Jan of 2015 or so. I put in a new battery first part of April. The car is under all emissions output and does not pollute. Except for Comprehensive Component not ready. This is a joke. Drive Cycle, it's ridiculous.
Last edited by R3Wood; 04-22-2015 at 09:04 AM.
#49
You created a zombie by reanimating this dead thread. But maybe your problem is with completing "drive cycles". Notice that it is not called "parking overnight on a highway cycles" or "store in a heated garage on a ctek cycles". The only way to complete drive cycles, unsurprisingly, is by driving under the various required conditions. The situation started when you cleared engine codes after replacing the sensor; clearing codes also clears completed drive cycles, and they must be started over.
Last edited by bakntyme; 04-22-2015 at 11:51 AM.
#50
The emissions cycle is usually 100 miles, There are fixed driving cycles for some items but you may/maynot have other issues. Here's something I quickly pulled from google:
NOTE: many of these if bad will post a code, but perhaps not..
The following is an example of some of the input and output components monitored by the CCM. The components monitor may belong to the engine, ignition, transmissions, air conditioning, or any other PCM supported subsystem.
Inputs: Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor, Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor, Throttle Position (TP) sensor, Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor, Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor (ACPS) , Fuel Tank Pressure (FTP) sensor.
Outputs: Fuel Pump (FP) , Wide Open Throttle A/C Cutout (WAC) , Idle Air Control (IAC) , Shift Solenoid (SS) , Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid, Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) , Evaporative Emission (EVAP) canister purge valve, Canister Vent (CV) solenoid.
CCM is enabled after the engine starts and is running. A Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is stored in Keep Alive Memory and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) is illuminated after two driving cycles when a malfunction is detected. Many of the CCM tests are also performed during on demand self-test.
NOTE: many of these if bad will post a code, but perhaps not..
The following is an example of some of the input and output components monitored by the CCM. The components monitor may belong to the engine, ignition, transmissions, air conditioning, or any other PCM supported subsystem.
Inputs: Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor, Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor, Throttle Position (TP) sensor, Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor, Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor (ACPS) , Fuel Tank Pressure (FTP) sensor.
Outputs: Fuel Pump (FP) , Wide Open Throttle A/C Cutout (WAC) , Idle Air Control (IAC) , Shift Solenoid (SS) , Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid, Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) , Evaporative Emission (EVAP) canister purge valve, Canister Vent (CV) solenoid.
CCM is enabled after the engine starts and is running. A Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is stored in Keep Alive Memory and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) is illuminated after two driving cycles when a malfunction is detected. Many of the CCM tests are also performed during on demand self-test.
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R3Wood (04-22-2015)
#51
You created a zombie by reanimating this dead thread. But maybe your problem is with completing "drive cycles". Notice that it is not called "parking overnight on a highway cycles" or "store in a heated garage on a ctek cycles". The only way to complete drive cycles, unsurprisingly, is by driving under the various required conditions. The situation started when you cleared engine codes after replacing the sensor; clearing codes also clears completed drive cycles, and they must be started over.
#52
It is not a distance requirement. It is possible to drive 50 miles and complete all the cycles, or drive thousands of miles and not complete them. Mine completed in less than two weeks of "normal" driving after I reset codes. If what is necessary to complete your cycles is to drive your car at 55 and coast to 20, I am sure you could find someone with the ability and patience to do that for you. Might be a good intro to the mechanic you will need in the future.
#53
#54
R3,
My experience with NJ inspection was about like yours. All kinds of driving notwithstanding, the Comprehensive Component continued thumbing its nose at me and, more importantly, at the inspection guys.
What freed me from this ongoing PITA was a series of drive cycles found in JTIS ... in the DTCs section ... under Pxxx codes ... then under OBD.
These cycles have you doing things that would not come up in everyday driving.
I have a scanner, and so could see that the C.C. clicked in almost immediately after driving through these cycles. Might do the trick for you too ...
Good luck.
My experience with NJ inspection was about like yours. All kinds of driving notwithstanding, the Comprehensive Component continued thumbing its nose at me and, more importantly, at the inspection guys.
What freed me from this ongoing PITA was a series of drive cycles found in JTIS ... in the DTCs section ... under Pxxx codes ... then under OBD.
These cycles have you doing things that would not come up in everyday driving.
I have a scanner, and so could see that the C.C. clicked in almost immediately after driving through these cycles. Might do the trick for you too ...
Good luck.
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R3Wood (04-24-2015)
#55
Recently had 2 knock sensors replaced. Mechanic disconnected battery and cleared memory. The following show not ready: Catalytic Converter Efficiency,
Evaporative Emissions Control System, O2 sensor. I've driven about 300 miles to no avail. Can the drive cycle be completed on a Dyno?
Evaporative Emissions Control System, O2 sensor. I've driven about 300 miles to no avail. Can the drive cycle be completed on a Dyno?
Last edited by MDVeeJazz; 04-25-2015 at 01:20 PM. Reason: More specific
#56
The following users liked this post:
MDVeeJazz (04-27-2015)
#58
R3,
My experience with NJ inspection was about like yours. All kinds of driving notwithstanding, the Comprehensive Component continued thumbing its nose at me and, more importantly, at the inspection guys.
What freed me from this ongoing PITA was a series of drive cycles found in JTIS ... in the DTCs section ... under Pxxx codes ... then under OBD.
These cycles have you doing things that would not come up in everyday driving.
I have a scanner, and so could see that the C.C. clicked in almost immediately after driving through these cycles. Might do the trick for you too ...
Good luck.
My experience with NJ inspection was about like yours. All kinds of driving notwithstanding, the Comprehensive Component continued thumbing its nose at me and, more importantly, at the inspection guys.
What freed me from this ongoing PITA was a series of drive cycles found in JTIS ... in the DTCs section ... under Pxxx codes ... then under OBD.
These cycles have you doing things that would not come up in everyday driving.
I have a scanner, and so could see that the C.C. clicked in almost immediately after driving through these cycles. Might do the trick for you too ...
Good luck.
#59
Just to keep this going and add some (hopefully) useful information. I too had completed detailed drive cycles "by the book" and accumulated over 300 miles of driving trying to get the Evap, Catalyst (efficiency) and Component tests to complete. No MIL light, just incomplete monitors. I then replaced the Purge Valve (the one behind the left side wheel arch liner). Cleared all the codes, drove the car into town, not really trying for any particular drive cycles other than having 1/2 tank of fuel, the Evap monitor completed very quickly, then other monitors, then the Component, then the Catalyst (efficiency), and finally the O2 sensor test. It does not really make sense to me that the Catalyst would complete before O2, but that was the way it went. So, conclusion is that the Purge Valve was bad and that somehow prevented other monitors from "completing" too.
Fingers crossed that I can get to the test station with no new codes.
Fingers crossed that I can get to the test station with no new codes.
Last edited by 64vette; 01-12-2016 at 06:45 PM.
#60