ahh, and just when I was feeling all smug about having 600BAR hoses and having fixed my own ABS module.....

Wife took the Jaguar to work today, we actually did buy it for her but I have been kinda hogging it a lot... When I went out to the garage to putz with a few other things I noticed a small pool of liquid right about where the front of the right rear tire would be sitting... Apparently the dreaded roof cylinder leak...

What is going to be entailed to fix? Is it just a seal (just...lol), the whole cylinder, one side, both sides, hoses also, etc...

I found a lot of posts on the hose leaking at the top latch, and mention of the cylinder leak, but could not find (in my whole 3 minutes of searching the forum) the fix for a leaking cylinder.

History - bought the car (1999 Jaguar XK8) about a month ago off Ebay. Owner at time told me he did not think the roof worked. But, got the car cheap so I drove it away. When I tried the roof button myself (hey - gotta try it), lo and behold the roof went down - albeit slowly. After getting the car home I started my research on it, took a look at the pump to see if everything looked ok there. Fluid was very low and when I watched it with the roof in action it really emptied out so it looked the the pump was sucking air. I went to my friendly dealer, paid way to much for a can of CHF 11. I also thought that it may be good to flush it (I am big on putting in all new fluids with a new car) and had read that you could accomplish by draining, filling, working top, draining, filling, working top, etc, etc. So I did that until the whole can was empty. Since then the top has been working flawlessly with no apparent leaks in the top console (checked often) or the wheel arch and several times checked the fluid level in pump and it seemed to be holding. I have probably cycled the roof at least 30-50 times since the flushing (hey- its still sunny and 75 here in Southern Cal).

I also have the pressure relief valve on order from Walt, thought this would be a good preventative measure - though now in hindsight I probably should have quit putting the top up and down until the valve got installed, its just everything was going so well...

Anyway, car is not here so I cannot do much evaluation, but thought I would start asking...

 

You will find no repair for the lift. The seals are unavailable. What I would do at this time is install the regulator then monitor the leak. It may be caused by the high pressure and may not exist after the install of the valve. As for the info on the lift go to my page it is all you will find at this time.

 

I had a similar experience with a pool of hydraulic fluid on the floor. However, just prior to that, a couple of times the top seemed to freeze in place, even though I could hear the top motor buzzing in the trunk.

I disconnected the battery and made sure the hydraulic fluid was topped off. Since then, I have had no problems. My theory is something in the top mechanism jammed; or something was out-of-synch with a micro switch etc. This resulted in the hydraulic pressure building up in the cylinder and forcing itself out.

I would first expose the top motor, pump and fill tank. Top it off, disconnect the battery (to reset all computers, etc.,) Then keep an eye on the fluid levels for a while. If the top is working normally and the level still drops, then I would assume the seals in the cylinder are bad. Like Gus says, you could try to reduce the line pressures to see if that helps. However, I have had no problems since the one described above.

 

In anticipation of installing this kit, I had a look at the situation in my 2005 XKR and noticed something right off the bat. The metal platform that supports the pump is taller than the one shown on your webpage. In fact, the various plugs and pieces that are on the uppermost portion of the pump actually extend up beyond the "lip" that is formed on the inner edge of the rear fender (I may be describing this poorly but what I am describing should be obvious if you envision a pump support platform that is about 1" or more taler than what is shown on your webpage).

I assume that if I remove the 2 bolts that secure the pump to the platform, I will (hopefully) be able to get the pump out by sliding and rotating. Has anyone else noticed this slightly different set-up yet in the newer vintage cars?

Doug

 

After dealing with several tops and hearing what others have done I do agree with Gorto. This system is hydraulic, electrical and controlled by the proper sequence of a pump, 6 switches, 2 relays and 2 operating modules (computers) that at times has a brain fart and seem to get out of sequence. Pulling the battery terminal is one way of resetting or you can take it to the dealership for reprogramming. The only thing that I have a problem with is the removal and reinstall of the battery terminal. Doing it improperly could cause other problems. What I say to people that want to do this is when removing or reinstalling the terminal do not hesitate in either direction. The static can clear or corrupt the onboard programming or computers.

 

You are correct several pumps are mounted on a bracket that has accommodations for the DVD, Phone and GPS 3 tier. The one in the photo was from my car and I only have a DVD room for the phone 2 tier and the pump. You should have the same amount room around the pump area for the valve. I recently refilled a pump that was on a 3 tier and it was tight but accessible.

 

I have no doubt that the valve will fit fine once I tie-strap it to the pump. The problem I see is the actual removal of the pump for me to do the valve install as some of the plugs and gizmos on top of the pump currently extend up beyond the lip of the trunk (due to the taller platform that I have). So getting the pump out to work on will require some sliding, swiveling, rocking, etc. to be able to clear the lip. I was just wondering if anyone has successfully dealt with this yet.

Doug

 

Doug,
I have not removed one on the 3 tier but from what I can remember and the process of removing mine you should have no problems in doing it. The 2 bolts (T30) and it is free, lift a little and it will slide out.

 

Doug, the arrangement you have is the same as mine. I think MY2000 and beyond are like this. The instructions for the installation (download from our web site) tell how to extract the pump. You remove the two hold down screws, then slide the pump forward as far as possible, then rotate the tank end toward the trunk. It goes back in reverse order with no difficulty once the kit is installed.

Due to brisk orders we have gotten a price reduction from the manufacturer of the customized valve so the kit has been reduced by $20. They promise me that we will have delivery no later than 11/13.

Some perspective on costs: Lift cylinders are $245 ea., Latch cylinders are $325 ea, and the pump is $1575. Labor is a variable depending on whether you know what you are doing. Changing a lift cylinder, for example, requires removal of the back seat and the sub-woofer on that side.

There is a certain joy that goes with operating the top with impunity.

 

Thanks for the info Walt. The price reduction is especially great news, although I would have eventually bought this anyway since the group purchase did not seem to be going anywhere (the price reduction accomplishes the same thing). I intend to visit the manufacturer website to order in the next several days.

Doug

 

Has anyone else gone through an install yet on one of these valves? If so maybe it would be helpful to post your experiences.

Thanks,

Doug

 

I installed the pressure relief valve last week. For the most part everything went pretty easy and smoothly. I see no discernible slow down in the operation of the roof.

The only glitch I ran into was the hole where I removed the T30 plug on the inboard side of the pump right by the latch hose, which is on a 90 degree coupler was just blocking the ability to get the new hose threaded on. Quick email to Walt, he suggested turning the coupler a little more, however after several tries I was unable to budge it. Probably because it had not been moved for 10 years and since moving it meant tightening it even just a fraction more I was reluctant to put too much pressure on it. Since the pump was dismounted, it was also hard to get a lot of leverage on it.

It was very close and what I ended doing was backing the latch hose off the coupler about half way. Did not even need to remove it, just loosened it about half a dozen turns or so. This gave me just enough clearance to get the new hose started in the hole and once that was all the way in I was able to re-tighten the latch hose.

So far so good - no leaks and the roof seems to be operating normally. With the exception of the above, install was very easy. In my 1999, I only have the CD Player, and the Power Amp so I guess that is 2 out of the 3 possible tiers and there was ample room to get the pump out easily after the unbolting it. Didnt spill a drop on the install so no need to go out and get more fluid.

I have no way of testing the device to see if the pressure is indeed down other than it does sound quieter to me in operation, but I do trust Walt and Gus and give this a solid thumbs up.

 

Thank You! I had the same problem with the latch hose in the way and used the hammer in my photo to strike it and turn it just a bit to give me access. I was away from home when I installed it and the hammer was the only solution at the time. I would NOT recommend the use of the hammer to anyone!!!!! I am glad your install went well for you.

 

thanks for the update Mark!

 

U.S.A.F. utility tool?

While on submarines if the hammer didn't work, you got and used a bigger one!!

 

And I thought it was the best kept secret!

 

The hydraulic upgrade kits are now in stock.
http://www.lsi-controls.com/JagKit.htm

 

The ways to tell that the hydraulic kit is doing it thing:
1. At the end of the roof down or up there would normally be the sound of the pump trying to push oil that doesn't move. This is when the valve is relieving pressure so you will no longer hear the distinct sound of the stalled pump.
2. If you watch the tank, while someone operates the top, you should see oil circulating back in during the moments when previously the motor and pump would be stalled. The design of the pump is such that the motor will not stall when the pump can't move oil.

 

This brings up a question. With the your valve installed is there some rule-of-thumb as to how long to hold the button after the top opens or closes? I assume a few seconds at most? I believe that the the owner's manual warned about holding the button too long but I suspect your check valve may eliminate problems with doing so?

Thanks,

Doug

By the way, I have been emailing someone at your company (LSI) asking whether or not they accept PayPal--to you happen to know?

 

I am not sure that Jaguar was correct on this. I was told the same thing when I started this investigation. The system is a series of switches and hydraulics. When the roof is in operation the position of the actuators make contact with the switches that will tell the system to do the next step. This along with the computer makes it all work together. I think the theory of holding the button to long was in correct. Hoses, latches and lift failures were due to excessively high hydraulic pressure or equipment failure. My evaluation is High Pressure and I would be hard pressed to say anything different. So in my opinion holding the button theory is nothing but a placebo.