To acknowledge the flaws of a piece of engineering is, I think, definitely okay. Jag's R&D does this to their own cars. If you asked Jag engineers to rank their engines, some will be at the top, and some will be at the bottom. Early engines are often worse than newer engines. That's just how innovation works. The 4.0 is a beautiful engine, but it's not without its flaws and limitations, and Jag made significant changes to it.

Other manufacturers have the same issues. If you go on the Porsche forum and search for the IMS bearing, you will find many a complaint about how it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. If you go the BMW forum and search for rod bearings, you'll find the same thing. The existence of discussions of non-factory solutions to these problems is not an attack on originality, nor is it unheard of for manufacturers to have external solutions for their own cars. The new Astons use mercedes AMG engines. Once upon a time, AMG wasn't actually affiliated with Mercedes. The new Supra uses a BMW engine. There are parts on my engine that are common with Acuras and Ford Thunderbirds.

The LS (which again, is a very specific family of GM engines, not to be confused with e.g. the Northstar V8 or those notoriously bad Buick engines from the 70's and 80's) shouldn't be considered a better substitute for a Jag engine. They're not even remotely the same kind of V8. It should, however, be considered a viable alternative. That's what this discussion is about--not propagating one way or the other.

That people choose to address the same issue in different ways doesn't mean that one is a condemnation of the other. Nor does ones choice mean that that solution is perfect. That's fine.

And, it should be noted: my car is all original. That is my preference. I don't own any GM products, nor do I particularly want to (I've never liked GM products, and grew up with great disdain for the Corvette and Camaro). But their engines have come a long way since the days of "lumping" XJSs and XJ6/12s. It is a little bit frustrating, but in the same way that I hate the yankees, it is hard to reasonably deny what they are able to do, what people have been able to do with them, or how well-engineered they've become.

 

It went well beyond discussing the tensioner flaw. An issue that can be fixed relatively easily compared to replacing or rebuilding your whole engine. The AJ-26/27 has been called unreliable and underpowered here and claims have been made that the LS is much longer lasting.

The AM factory sourcing engines from MB to install into their cars, again in the factory, is immaterial to this discussion. They have for a while been using just blocks from other makes and supplying the internals themselves.

Yes, I know about the IMS bearing. Difference is that Porsche owners usually just take care of it rather than lump their cars.

 

This post is NOT about the factory engine. All you are doing is creating negative sentiment about people whom are interested in talking about the LS V8 which is the only reason why there is any discussion about the factory engine at all. This discussion is about LS V8 swapped Jaguars not the factory engine. The more you try to antagonize people the more they make you look like an idiot. The factory engine is fine for a purist but any attempt to try to say that the factory engine is better than an LS is futile as the LS is just a better engine.

Again this thread is NOT about the factory engine but the LS engine and the experience people have with them.

 

This thread is NOT about the factory engine, the original poster and others all are sharing the common interest of understanding the LS engine and how it works in the Jaguar. We all know that the factory engine can be rebuilt and we are choosing to discuss the LS option as we would rather use that engine.

 

Guys, the merits of both engines are not mutually exclusive. No need to name call. No need to hop on a thread to scold people. No need for the animosity.

This was intended to be an exploratory thread, not propaganda. It was evident to me that Andrew does very high quality work, and much more refined that the usual stick-an-LS-in-it type of job. That's all.

It's an *option*. If you don't like it, don't do it. Simple as that.

Good god.

 

Hopefully the person creating all of the negative views will READ your message and stop posting on this thread!

Getting back to your topic, The LS3E-Rod is a great option for any Jaguar engine swap as they offer a 430 HP and a 556 HP supercharged version. The nice thing is that these are designed by Chevy to meet stringent emissions and are CA legal. That kind of power is a lot more I believe than the first prototype you drove with Andrew so the performance will be impressive. Keep in mind Andrew's kits are setup for the newer LS engines and those can be found with low mileage, etc. that will be around the same HP and a new LS3E-rod but if you want all new an LS3E-rod is pretty cool. If you ride in an LS Jaguar you will see a noticeable performance improvement. My four door Jaguar that I have with an LS1 aluminum block with mild cam, headers, performance tune & about the same HP as the E-rod, I believe is around the weight of your car will now do 0-60 in 4 seconds +/- .05 and I am running the standard 4L60 automatic transmission. I am running headers but thru Magnaflow mufflers so it is not loud as I wanted it to be more of a sleeper. The car is smooth in stop and go traffic and I drive it daily averaging 30,000+ miles a year for the last three years as I am now at 100,000 miles of daily street driving rain or shine..

 

How important it is is in the eyes of the beholder, so to speak.

But, I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down. I lumped my Jag (in a manner of speaking) by converting an XJ6 into an XJ12. Not a swap many would make, and certainly not if they were after big horsepower. But, I'm fond of the V12 and I enjoyed keeping the car Jaguar-ish. An old Jag with an old Jag V12. Nostaligia? I reckon so. Or at least a undeniable sentimental aspect.

Along those lines....

As long as cars have been around people have been trying to make them go faster, swapping engines, eliminating real or perceived faults, redesigning them mechanically or aesthetically to suit their owns tastes. It's a big part of the car hobby and always has been. So, in a very real sense, engine swapping is a tip o' the hat to tradition and nostalgia.

Yeah, but don't forget that Jaguar itself doesn't object to more horsepower. Look at the "R" versions, after all. They knew some people wanted more power and built cars to meet that demand. It wasn't a matter of determining what a potential buyer needs. It was accommodating what a potential buyer wants. None of us 'need' to drive Jaguars in the first place! We could be driving 20 year old Honda Civics if the only consideration was the need for a transportation device

It all comes down to choices. Jaguar offered buyers a choice with, for example, the "R" versions. Engine conversion companies offer a choice as well, even if there is no provable need for it. It's the epitome of of entrepreneurship. Recognizing a demand for a product....and developing a product to meet it.

Cheers
DD

 

Go back to post #29 to where I challenged the assertion that the X100 will never be collectible. The only reason there is talk about the factory engine is because you and a couple others have been selling the Chevy engine as some kind of pinnacle of reliability, flex plates and all. Show me where I interfered with technical discussions of the LS engine? I did not. You respond to me and you can expect a response back, that's how this works. I have actually held a lot back for sake of civility but it's clear you are now antagonizing me.

You're selling your opinion that the LS is a better engine like this is completely undebatable. So now I will ask you why? Timing gear and flex plates aside for both, what makes it "better" other than tending to have more power? The AJ-V8's are smoother and are DOHC designs.

 

A 2011 Cadillac Northstar is "smoother" than an AJ26 V8 and also DOHC, so is it "better"?

Its a big world, but even so, the following seem to be true:

1.) Nobody is making 420 RWHP with a emissions legal, Normally Aspirated AJ26 in an X100. Nobody.
2.) Nobody has a working 6 Speed manual AJ26 X100. Nobody.
3.) There isn't a HUGE aftermarket supporting the AJ26
4.) there isn't THOUSANDS of AJ26 tuners in the US
5.) There isn't whole web forums (that are larger than this forum) devoted to AJ26 Tuning
6.) ZF 5HP24's were NEVER put behind 350 HP+ motors by any OEM (320 lb-ft max).

The biggest complaint by hot rodders about LS swaps are they are "too easy". The only person in this thread adamantly against LS swaps doesn't even own an AJ26 and has never lived with an AJ26/5HP24 vs, everyone else who actually owns/lives with one. Neither of these negative opinions seem very credible.

 

So it's not smoother, hence the sarcasm quotes? No, it's not better. Earlier Northstar engineering:


All this is supposed to mean what exactly to me considering I am not into tuning? Regarding the 6spd manual, DB7 - like I told you before. And no, you won't be buying one for $7,500. Maybe a badly wrecked example.

None of this answers how the LS is fundamentally a better engine.

Are you telling us that the AJ26/5HP24 is too difficult for you to live with? So why not just sell the car? Like I asked you before, why did even you buy one? Perhaps a '98 DeVille would have been more up your alley?

 

Kind of like a man going to a rock concert and complaining the music is to loud.
No where in the title of the thread did I see "We need a difference of opinions to a engine exchange".
With all your knowledge, surely you could add some direction or a better way to accomplish this end product.
Not something we all are contemplating, but knowledge makes going into a problem a little less scary and I have to keep skipping over your asinine comments to get to the subject.
Lots of other Forum members are having trouble, go help them.

 

Gents,
In changing out an engine, the OP did say he knew this would be a hot discussion...... and certainly it has been in this thread. I'm firmly in the "camp" where it's your car and you can do whatever you want with it. Be damned for the next owner. The beautiful X100 exterior lines' might not be ruined with a LS swap, but certainly all forum members will notice it when we open the bonnet. But some future prospective owners might not though. There will always be people who want more power, but some don't. Can't please everyone. Just do whatever you want.

As the OP said, it's nice to have options when the AJ-V8 engine grenades itself but it's a bit like discussing your last will and testament with the future recipients. I think Jaguar Specialties provide a service (similar to a necromancer who can raise your car from the dead). Whether you want a LS enginer or not, that's up to you.

As for me, my 1999 XK8 4.0L na AJ-27 V8 and 5HP24 combo, is being cared as much as possible which includes flooring the gas pedal during my Sat Mornings' grand cruise around the island of Bahrain. If the engine grenades, I'll just have to rebuild it. To help I already have a scrap donor car here - which BTW someone has taken the engine already. LOL!

 

...said the guy who doesn't even own one,

I bought a XK8 coupe because it is beautiful, tight, rides great, handles great AND you can swap a LS/6 speed manual into one when the original motor/trans goes bad and make a good car even better.

What kind of an insult is that? please list the performance cars you've owned or currently own. I would guess none. An LS swap "de-grampa's" an XK8, which is the complete opposite of what you are suggesting.

Who said any of this was about you? If you have ever owned a performance car (its pretty obvious you haven't) in order to make it faster, it has to be tuned. Having a guy in every little town in the US that can do this for you is a plus and the ability to do this yourself is a double plus.

The majority Street Rods are Chevy powered Fords. A well done street rod is worth considerably more than a stock restored version and this is with all Iron "lump" Chevy V8 Motors and a 3 speed autos, not all Aluminum LS motors and a 6 speed manual. Street rods morphed into restomods, restomods morphed into "pro touring".

Not being into "tuning" (or performance cars in general) you wouldn't be aware of any of this, so your idea of the value of such swaps are meaningless and your comments are becoming increasingly Troll like. just a guy hidden under a bridge, spouting negative nonsense about coupe devilles and crap...huh?

 

I don't want to close the thread - so let's just agree to disagree! We know these engines can be rebuilt and we also know the LS swap is an option. At the end of the day - it's up to the owner of the car to do with as they please which includes an LS swap if so desired.

 

I see my question about how the LS being supposedly a better engine is still unanswered. Your idea of better is my *******ization. Did I make that clear enough? You obviously have no idea of the value of these cars.

Yet again, if you replace the timing gear there is no reason why your engine should go bad any time soon. You also have no idea what underpowered is and are actually insulting every x100 owner by claiming his car is a slow grandpa car. Have you ever driven a Fiat 126p? Go ahead and do so or at least read up the specs on them and come back and talk to me about underpowered.



It was directed at me, was it not? Or you can just buy a factory stock car that is powerful enough for you. What I have or have not owned is irrelevant in regards to having an opinion.

More irrelevance. American street rods and European GT's = two completely different animals. It's not non-sense. You claim (or at least hint) that GM makes a better engine, claimed Jaguar practiced PO, and so it's a very logical question. If I have a negative opinion about any make I simply don't buy it.

 

Mr Moderator, thank you for stepping in and keeping the thread open. I just wanted to offer one clarification.

This thread is only about the LS conversion option for XK8's, nothing more. The OP started just to engage a discussion/exchange of info on that subject, and you can see that from the very first post. The others on the thread are all engaged as well in that line of thought. No where in the thread did the posters wonder about the Jag engine options except for one poster who seems to insist that all thought leading to a non-Jaguar engine solution is wrong and mis-informed. He has pulled, and continues to pull, the thread away from its original intent and seems to have raised the unnecessary (and apparently uninterested) ire of the other thread posters. I have no idea why he continues to post here as it seems to do nothing but antagonize the other thread members. Do you see it differently???

 

I'll stick to my comment that my 1999 XK8 is ho-hum. But the XK8 is a majestic vehicle with good looks. You can put the top down on sunny days and enjoy the rough back roads as the softer suspension and higher aspect ratio tires soak up the bumps. I often wish it had more acceleration. OTOH, my 2004 STR is much more to my taste regarding power/acceleration and handling and stopping power,
If I want my XK8 to be more like my STR, then either I have to purchase a newer more expensive XKR, or swap the engine. (The XK8 has beautiful classic body that I like better than the X150s)

Jaguar 4.0 / 4.2 / 5.0 engines versus GM LSx engines are two different beasts.

- I consider all the Jaguar V8 and V6 engines to be "Integrated" power plants. Jaguar's overall production volume has been so low that they fine tune the engine to the specific transmission and vehicle they put them in. Makes it really difficult to modify because you are dealing with complete integrated drivetrains and many things you change on the engine effects how the rest of of the car operates.

- GM LSx engines have become a mix and match system. Literally millions of the engines have been built and put in a wide range of vehicles. Trucks, cars, commercial vehicles.... Because of this there is a huge aftermarket following with support to do almost anything you want with their engines. (LSx engines are even in airplanes!!!)

Most car owners don't get into the internals of an engine. They want a reliable engine that provides them with the power and torque they can afford. To them, who cares if it is a push rod engine or DOHC.
We are the ones on the forum who debate which is better.
Example: my wife, she just wants to hop in the car, start the engine, drive, and enjoy. - She thinks our XK8 is OK and fun to drive, but she says she enjoys driving the X-type Estate or my STR better.

 

Back on topic i follow a forum for dropping ls engines into chevy square bodies 73-86c/k and 87-91 r/v of which i have a 87 suburban with a stroked 383 450hp and a 300hp shot of nitrous. Back when i built this engine in the 90s ls engine were very new and limited performance or swap info. Today you can swap into anything. They are cheaper to buy a used engine, trans and harness than the money i spent 20 years ago to build the stroker. With a tune and cam change have the same 450hp. The heads are excellant and the blocks extrmemly strong. There are a lot of guys putting a single turbo on the used 5.3 and making a easy 5-600hp at the wheels. Just because you have the hp doesnt mean you have to use it and that thing under your right foot easily modulates the hp level. Personally i like stuff that is not the norm and surprizes people. To that end if i didnt already have 3 hi performance vehicles to contend with i would ls swap a jaguar in a heartbeat given a great donor. You know, great interior, paint and blown engine or trans. Value of a used jag??? Please, theyre cheap if you look around. Imo holding onto a jaguar for it to maybe be of increasing value oneday equates to continuing to buy a losing stock. Its your money, have fun with it. Our kids are just going to go spend it on bs after we die anyway.

 

**********************************

Your post #29 is where 80sRule said his X100 with 110K is in better shape than he bought it when it had 40,000 miles and it is still not worth squat. Your opinion was that the XK8’s would appreciate within 10 years using the argument that the XJS has stopped declining in the last few years.

Now most collectable cars generally have not declined below their retail price and those continue to rise over time. The XJS has dramatically declined in value to about 1/3 of the original price. NADA guides as an example for a 1990 XJS had a retail value of $48,000 and now it sells for a low of $5950 to an average of $9650 and a high of $12,500. That is no trend to justify that the XK8 will rise in value. In fact the XK8 had a retail value even worse, as an example a 2002 XK8 convertible sold for $69-$75,000 and now the car sells between $8000 to $16,000 with an average of $12,000. That is a fact.

The reality is that this thread is about sharing information about LS engine swaps and since your post #29 you continue to spew rants like the above because you are a purist and are against an LS swap. Many others on the other hand enjoy the style of their XK8 and when their engine is worn out as many are reaching that point, they are interested in an LS engine.

As far as why is an LS engine better than the stock Jaguar engine, there are many reasons which many have replied but you are so set on your opinion you ignore the facts. Here are some of the reasons why an LS is a good engine to replace the stock engine:

1. They do have a track record for running well beyond 300,000 miles and the Jaguar engine does not
   
2. They do provide more horsepower both in stock trim with 400-450HP and the Jaguar is far less power.
   
3. The LS has hundreds of performance options at inexpensive prices and the Jaguar does not
   
4. The LS can easily be improved with minor bolt on performance adders and the power can easily exceed 550 HP to 750HP and be a reliable street engine while the Jaguar engine even in fully internally modified race trim can only drum up 550 and is not a streetable engine.
   
5. The LS is incredibly light weight and does not take up as much room
   
6. The LS is inexpensive to service compared to the Jaguar engine
   
7. The LS has such a huge amount of engines that is has one of the largest amount of both service companies and performance tuners where the Jaguar is more expensive to repair and there are very few if any performance tuners
   
8. The LS has an enormous amount of aftermarket parts both stock and high performance and the Jaguar does not.
   
9. The LS has much higher performance and reliability at a fraction of the cost of other engines
   

Ungn and others have given you many facts about the LS yet you dig your head further into the sand and ignore the facts.

The Jaguar engine cannot provide the above qualities and that is just the fundamental facts.

This thread is about a discussion on the LS engine swaps. People have repeatedly said that they do NOT appreciate your rants so I would suggest you leave as your are NOT wanted on this thread...

 

Andrew I completely agree! There is no reason for him to post as this is completely off topic and he continues to try to antagonize to create a debate that is off topic and when facts are presented he continues to create more misinformation; maybe the moderator can remove him? as there is interest in this thread...