Read this...

 

And this, if you haven't already...

Are you getting any messages about the position of the top (OPEN/CLOSED) that don't correspond with the actual position of the hood? I've looked at a few photos and there are definitely micro switches in the area and function of the latch...

Does anyone here know how to hot wire the relay plugs for the top? Could a huge load caused by jamming that allen key manual mechanism burn one of those tiny wires that run the coils in solenoid,,, or the relay or both? Or, the fuse for the top? You may just have a blown fuse that resulted from the jam up (if there was one)... A hard jam, that is

 

Look and zoom in on photo number 2, here...

 

The Allen wrench did not actually bind with anything. I let go of the switch when I realized the error when I noticed the Allen wrench turning as the claw was closing but before engaging the hook on the top. I pulled Allen wrench out of the hole and again punched the switch to finish the closing procedure. Unfortunately, the claw closed before engaging the hook. So I don’t think anything popped or crunched under the plastic covering.

That is when I again swapped out the up/down relays hoping the good relay would now open the top. But i now was also getting “hood not latched” on the dashboard. So I assumed I just got the whole top system out of sync.

i then manually lowered the top, opened the claw then manually closed the claw as it would be with the top open. My hope here was to get the top system back in sync.

i purchased new up/down relays to replace the old ones so to eliminate any relay questions.

However, when then trying to run the close procedure - nothing happened when the button was pushed.

 

Thru hard and frustrating experience, especially on Jaguars, I've learn that just because it's new doesn't mean it works... More than once,,,, yadda yadda yadda

Try this. And I'm sorry to do this to ya and just add and add, but I believe the rear window relays (in the same area of the fuse box) are the same shape, size, type... Try taking one or TWO of the window relays and popping them into the relay slots for the top and see what you get...?

I wish someone here who knows would explain how to bypass the relay and hot wire the motor to run. Basically, there is a voltage that comes into the relay to engage/turn on the relay. Once "turned on" the relay contact snaps shut and completes a path for the high amp circuit which powers the pump, in this case. If you can figure out which of those sockets are the ones that run the pump you can make a BRIDGE out of a short stretch of wire and run some tests.

I feel for ya man. I walked up to a convertible that went underwater and the top/roof situation need a lot of attention. Is a complex thing...

 

Try post #2 here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-closed-71304/

 

If I recall, the quarter windows relays are smaller and will not fit the top relays. A couple years ago, I actuality fitted a rocker switch and push button switch on my console to operate the top, bypassing the SLCM. The top button was used to lower and raise the quarter windows and the rocker switch was used to lower and raise the top. The push button was to activate the solenoid to open the latch. The rocker switch for down just supplied power to the relays to activate it, for up, I had to a also power the solenoid to switch to raise. I used this method for almost two years, until my security module started not recognizing the key and I Funaki had to replace it last month. I did do a write up about the process, if you search my posts, you may be able to find it. I will try to find my notes from when I did this and add to this post later this afternoon. This method will work as long as you can operate the windows with the top button. Raising and lowering the top there is a sequence of about a dozen steps with checks at each step. The security module and body processing module monitor the steps and allow all the functions in one button. Because my security module was failing, I was able to isolate and manually control some of the steps. The risk of this is if you don't know and follow the sequence correctly, things could get damaged.

 

Thank you, both...
So I was wrong. The two up/down top relays are not the same as the window relays, my bad... But the relays are there. Sounds like you know which they are.

Point is, see if you can "JUMPER" relay sockets to drive/control the pump without the relay. And be careful.
​​​​​​

 

I was....https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-story-237131/

 

Ok now I am really confused!
I pulled out and inspected the SCLM. I found no indication of anything wrong on the card - no marks electrical or water marks on the card. It look great. So I put everything back in place, reseated all of the relays (modules), did a hard reset and connected the battery. Cranked up the engine, pressed the top up button, heard a ding, the driver and passenger side windows dropped slightly and nothing happened, after a about 30 seconds the driver and passenger windows raised back up. So the top is still down, the rear windows are still down and I am back to square one.

So, after rereading the link suggested by NORRI with the technical sheet. I again assumed the top is out of sequence. So I did the following:
1. Manually opened the claw for the top.
2. Pushed the up button
3. Heard the ding and the claw immediately went back to the closed position and the top closed but since the latch went down immediately it did not engage the hook on the top.
4. So now I get the Hood not Latched message and light is now but the top is closed — but not latched and the rear windows remain down. However, as I continued to hold the button down I heard a sound like the rear windows were trying to raise or it may have been the pump running (but the top was fully up).
5. I pressed the top down button and nothing happens - no ding, the drivers and passenger windows do not lower - nothing!

It appears to me all of the electronics and hydraulic pump are working but the top sequence is out of kilter. Any suggestions?

In advance thanks.

 

Have you had a look at Gus's troubleshooting guide? JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
There's a link to a TSB in there which also has a load of info in it.

 

Hahaha! It'll drive ya nuts...

The important thing to remember here (unless something crazy happens) you're not going to break anything... Just do stuff!

OK - So before doing anything else (if things are how you said they were in your last post), take your allen key and open the latch,,, grab that little handle, engage it into the receiver and crank it closed. What happens to the warning on the dash? At that point, god willing, the windows will go up! Maybe! If not,,,

((( Believe it or not, the sensor in the ram that tells the 1/4 windows that the top is fully up and latched. It actually knows/senses the difference between the top being up and latched and up and unlatched. It's that last 1/2 to 1 inch that trips the sensor in the ram for the 1/4 windows. Anyways,,,, if latching the thing doesn't work,,,,


Start again. Open EVERYTHING!

- Run main driver's and passenger windows to DOWN.
- Open the boot.
- ​​​​​​Petcock open.
- Close the boot...
​​​​- Open the top by hand...
Make sure it's ALLLLLLL the way down. All the way!
- If the 1/4 windows are down, good!
If not, hot wire them suckers to down!
- For ishts and giggles cycle the latch (car off) to opened and closed once. Leave it closed to where it would be when running - or when latched and closed for that matter...- Maybe even close all the doors, top down, 1/4 windows down, petcock open. LH and RH main door windows down! Close doors. Put the key in the driver's door lock and turn it to unlock. What happens? Turn it to LOCK. What happens? Does it chirp?

At this, if everything is in the top DOWN position and the alarm chirped, disarm the alarm, go to the boot, turn the petcock (tight!) anticlockwise (I believe), get in, start the car and try that doggone button... What happens?

I think at that the latch should pop UP (waiting for the top), the top should raise and latch and you should be gravy....

You really have to just get in there, think about where and how things are SUPPOSED to be when the top is open or closed and try to achieve that with the car off, then turn on the car and give it a shot... Over and over and over - til ya git it!

 

I did everything as suggested, alarm chirped… but still the top will not rise and the latch did not pop up. However, the pump does run but nothing is happening.

 

For the hell of it - turn the petcock the opposite way and repeat...

 

Did that too! ☹️

 

after reading your last post about the pump running but the top and the latch do not raise and open when pressing the top up button leads me to think that the solenoids are either not working or not getting energized. as a test, you could jump the up relay and the outboard solenoid. Take a couple feet of small wire 18 to 22 gauge is fine, you will need 2 of them. take one wire and stick the end in the solenoid wire connector, (follow the wire from the solenoid down about a foot) I want to say it's a brown or green wire. Take the other wire and pull the top up relay, stick the wire in the number 2 slot (look at the relay for the number 2 position) might be the center slot, replace the relay. take two other ends of the two wires, key on, engine off and touch the wires to the positive battery post. if the solenoid works but did not get power, the pump should start and the top should raise. if the pump starts by the top does not raise, the solenoid may be faulty. to test the latch, move the solenoid jumper wire to the inboard solenoid wire connecter and see if the latch opens when jumping the pump and inboard solenoid. That is the test we did on my car when I was having problem off the top not going up. here is a link to my story with some pictures as well.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-story-237131/

 

Second verse, same as the first…Despite a concentrated effort today on my part following suggestions by wonderful and knowledgable forum participants, the top will now go up by either (1) using a combination of the up button and the allen wrench or by (2) using the key in the door. But with either method the common denominator is the latch at the header seems to be 180 degrees off in that it closes before the top reaches the header and thus the hook is not engaged and the top not fully latched. Which means the quarter windows do not close and the “hood not latched” message appears. Since the top is not latched the top will not lower automatically and thus has to be lowered manually. I am becoming an expert in manually lowering the top!

The other common denominator is the quarter windows are not rising.

Thoughts or suggestions appreciated and much thanks to JayJagJay, Decarlo and Norri. Hopefully tomorrow will be even more productive.

Despite today’s frustrations, my wife and I did have a great top down evening drive.

Thanks all

 

I'm glad you are making some progress. The pump and solenoids are working, but something is causing the latch to close to soon. Since the top is not latched, the rear windows will not raise, since that is the last step. This may not be how you want to "fix"it. But you could always disconnect the two latch hoses at the pump and plug the outlet holes. You would just have to use the allen wrench to open and close the latch, but this may give you functionality of the top. This will also eliminate the "green shower"risk of failing latch hoses.

 

Well it’s been three months since my top stop working, due to a lot of input from so many of you, it is now opening and closing better than before. While it was a long and sometimes frustrating journey my new friend Gus kindly led the way. His insight allowed me to understand how the system works. While the blue solenoid ended up being the culprit my Ram hydraulic lines were on their last leg — with the black covering peeling away. The windshield lines had been replaced by the original owner just before I purchased the car last year. So replacement of the Ram lines was in order and while doing such since the right side ram controls the quarter window which were also not working, the decision was made to rebuild the ram and like shoelaces if one is worn the other one is not far behind. So both rams were rebuilt by Top Hydraulics.

The effort is not hard, especially with Gus just a text message away, it does take time but is quite satisfying when it was all said and done. At some point in the effort the blue solenoid was damaged which reared its head after the new lines were connected to the pump and the top still would not work! A repeat removal of the pump revealed a possible issue with the blue solenoid as the brown connector was obviously not as tight as the brown connector on the orange solenoid. Sourced a replacement and life was good as the top immediately would go up but… it would now not properly go down!

A few emails to ole Gus and some double checking found that I had failed to properly attach the Rams to their pivot point.

That rookie error corrected and life was good! The top now closes in 20 seconds vs the 30 seconds prior to the tops initial failure in June.

Thanks to all of you on this thread. Your input is what make the Jaguar Forums so great.