Being I need to remove a door panel I figured Id replace speakers. I was curious why no one has used a 3 speaker component set being we have a three speaker component system. Being our factory system has a built in crossover it seems to me only logical if using the factory radio and amps to go this route otherwise youde be missing out on some frequency.


Perhaps I missed someone doing it but I did a search. What do you all say? Its a convertible and I also just figured the acoustic designers had something in mind when they used all three locations up front.


Any advice on this is appreciated.

 

There are 3 speakers, but it is only a 2-way system.
For my understanding the speaker in the dash is a tweeter and the speaker in the door triangle is a super-tweeter with an additional resistor.
A good aftermarket tweeter in the dash should cover the whole frequency range.

 

Yep it's a 3 way already: woof in doors, mid range in dash and tweeters with a cap in sail panels.
Could even say 4 way in the convertible with the 2 added subs.
Mids and tweets share the same channel, I guess the natural roll off of the mids is used as crossover, and the tweets don't play too low due to the cap.
I never tried to measure their respective frequency range, would be curious, maybe I'll try one day in my convertible.

Anyway, if you plan to replace them, take this in consideration, only two channels here...

 

There are people who have put in a component set. In fact, I have a set of components for Polk that have been sitting for about a year in their box, waiting for warmer weather and some extra time for me to put in. I plan to replace the woofers and tweets and leave the supertweeters.

I will then have:
Factory Alpine deck+CD changer+amp+crossovers
2-Factory Alpine supertweeters
2-Polk tweeters in dash (component set)
2-Polk woofers in doors (componet set)
2-Kicker subwoofers in rear [already replaced, an improvement, but not as dramatic as I'd hoped, probably due to factory amp limitations]

 

I'll throw in yet another perspective. I drove a while with the stock system and was totally underwhelmed. The mid in the dash seemed to punch me in the face. Poor soundstage and imaging. So, I replaced the fronts with JL Audio components, both in the door as recommended by the manuf. I then replaced the subs in back with JL Audio subs and then modified the cabinet so I could also get a pair of JL 5 1/2" coaxials back there as well. I put in a new head unit and amp and it sounds about a million times better. I was hesitant to replace the stock head unit but the double din unit looks very very clean and (thanks to other members) putting the seat heater buttons etc in the console was a breeze. The difference in sound quality is night and day AND I can play off an SD card or phone or whatever. My phone works better too. Audio is like the muffler debate, everyone is going to have a different opinion, but I really like my setup. (and the steering wheel controls still work)

 

I guess it wasn't only the frequency but also positioning od speakers. They could have easily just used the dash or "super tweeter position" but chose both. I did find a jl audio 3 piece component setup. Im figuring If I go with those and the rear woofer replacement ill be all set if change my deck later on. The sound even compared to my 2004 xjr is VERY underwhelming..Then again its a convertible.. I wont be doing this for awhile but ill post results of what I did and how it sounds


On another note.... Should I dyna matt the doors?


Thanks!

 

Guys it's really incorrect to speak about super tweeter, it's just a regular 3 way. The dash speaker are mid-ranges not tweeters.
I think it's not too bad for a stock system. I mean at reasonable volume it sounds ok, especially with the time alignment feature.
But if you cranks it up, it goes nasty.

I've spent a long time working on this, I'd say for a simple upgrade, a very good two way is the best, to avoid bad windshield reflections. If you want more than it's a different story.
New subs w/ amp, dsp, mid in pods on the dash, or in the doors...

About dynamat sure it will help, but don't go crazy, about 30% of the surface is the best compromise. Covering the holes of the door will help too.
But start with some new speaker rings, more solid and not leaky.

With stock speakers you could also consider a DSP, like JBL ms-8. It's really magic

 

Well I bit the bullet. If these don't fit in my xkr I can throw them in one of my other cars. Anyway this is what I picked up


JL Audio C5-653 Evolution? C5 Series 6-3/4" 3-way component speaker system at Crutchfield.com


I got them brand new for 450 shipped. It does appear that the dash speakers are some sort of midrange. Not knowing how the factory amplification works is it possible that the door tweeters are separately filtered? Hope I can fit these. But well see

 

Nice set, and for a very good price!
So you want to plug these on the OEM amp?
They look to be 4ohms, so don't expect too much volume.
It appears the mids are 4", might be impossible to fit in dash (originals are 2,5" / I tried 3" and I had to cut a bit).

Since original Mids/tweeters use the same channel, what do you plan for your crossover? You could use the JL one, plugged in the door there's room enough, fed by the tweeter signal, but then you'll need to rewire to feed the dash speakers.

 

They are 4ohm. I keep seeing mixed messages on the OHM ratings but a few had shown a 4ohm stamp on the back of their speaker....Worst case scenario it sounds better but volume is decreased. I see myself adding a deck later on. As I said hopefully I can fit these. Was a great price!


As far as the crossover I was curious as what to do. It seems silly to wire in the crossover if I don't have too . Ive seen ones just for tweeters that block out the low frequencies. Any idea on those?


Now with the dash speakers. Hopefully I can get them to fit. I have a feeling with this setup and new woofers in the rear I may get a decent sound. If they cant fit Ill have to look elsewhere and use these on one of my other cars....Which Im ok with as well!

 

If you are using the stock amp, it has a crossover built in, but I'm not sure what frequencies it is set to. When I put in my Polk set, I plan to just use the factory amp/crossovers and not use the Polk crossovers at all, hoping the factory is close enough to provide good sound. If you wire in new crossovers, you will essentially be doubling up. While the new crossovers will provide exactly what the speakers want, the factory crossovers could be blocking frequencies that the new speakers can produce. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I have will chime in with specs.

 

Sure the 4/2 ohms is not the only thing, it's also about their sensitivity.
Usually they use 2ohms and high sensitivity to minimize the amp power/size/cost for a decent volume.
Sensitivity is also important to match between all speakers, but in your case not so since you don't have rears, and you can adjust the sub volume independently.
So you're right it may be cleaner but just lower (but usually when it's cleaner you want it higher
Not sure but I think the amp is about 6x35w and about 100w for both subs, so clearly the JL will enjoy another amp later.


You planned to put the JL in back, as subs and keep the actual woof in doors?
This sounds like a bad idea, the best use of these JL would be in front, all together as their intend (to match sensitivity/tonality/power response etc).
And these JL woofers are not subwoofers (even if they might be better at this).
Everything depends of your goal, sound quality or just more oomph?

If it's SQ then first, the layout in the car is:
2 front channels high freq for mids & tweets
2 front channels low freq for woofers in doors
2 rear channels full range in coupe
2 rear channels for sub(s)

So just few things to keep in mind as K.Westra explained:

- the goal of this Xover is to separate a full range signal into low/mid/high frequencies
- I never measured the oem system, but I don't think there's any full range channel in front, so you can't feed the crossover to serve all 3 JL speakers in the same time.
- But the front signal is already splitted by the amp, into lows/highs. So you could use your Xover to re-separate the front highs into mids/highs.
- the nice spatialization feature of the oem system would be safe like that (It delays +/- the signal per all 4 front channels).

Just one thing, this might not be perfect for these speakers.
The Jaguar amp uses a specific frequency and slope to split low & high, I doubt that they're the same in the JL Xover.
For example JL might use something like:
woof 0-300Hz
mid 300-3500Hz
Tweet 3.5Khz+

But Jaguar:
woof 80-1000Hz (the amp probably cut around 80 for the sub)
mid+tweet 1000Hz+ (tweet won't see 1000Hz)

So the final result would be, jaguar+JL:
woof 80-1000Hz
mids 1-3.5kHz
tweet 3.5KHz&+

In this case it should be good and maybe great. But if numbers are way different it could be shitty.
For this you'll need to take the signal from the tweet or the mids to the Xover, and then reroute two pair of wires to the mids in dash and the tweeters in sail panels.
Few solutions:
A - armrest: take the signal in the armrest hub / place Xovers below or in the armrest / add wires from here to to dash mids / use original wires to tweets.
B - doors: take the signal from the tweeter wires / place Xovers behing door panels / add wires from here to to dash mids / add wires to tweets.
C - lower behind dashboard: the split for mids/tweeters is here, so you could place the Xover here. But honestly, it is not easy to get there…

And this is if the 4" fit.
If so, try to separate front and back wave of the speaker (no leak).
Then spend some time on a solid speaker ring for the woofers + dynamat, and maybe close the holes to get the best of your midbass.
Tweeters would be easy to fit in or over the sail panels.

Ready for this? Told you a 2 way would be simpler


There are other solutions but :/
- if you don't use the crossover, you must at least add a capacitor on the tweeters to protect them from low freq. And then the 4" will still play high frequencies in the same time... this will be messy as hell on your dashboard.
- not using any tweeter... maybe you can't hear over 12kHz?

 

I didn't plan on putting any of these speakers in the rear. I planned on buying the JL audio versions that fit and others have used


A capacitor is actually exactly what I was thinking for the tweeter instead of using a crossover for the dash and tweeters. I realize its a two channel High/low and the factory tweeters appear to have some kind of capacitor on them to filter out I guess the mids?


I'm going to see what I can do here. Maybe bad...Maybe not.. Worst case I ditch the factory deck and install an aftermarket deck and amp...Not against that at all....But being I needed to pull a door panel off....This got me going with at least the speakers.

 

Well hopefully my door handle doesn't fall off before it gets warmer out so I can experiment with this ..Always up for a challenge!

 

Ha ok misunderstood about the subs.
Yeah you should be able to guesstimate the frequency cut with the tweeter&cap references. But it will do nothing for the mids.
As regger21 experienced, I just wanted to emphasize on good speaker placement / Xover management / solid install to get the best results.

 

Is there somewhere I can tap out of the factory amp that has full range? I have the cars wiring diagrams at home but unsure if that will tell me anything.


I BET my factory deck doesn't stay in my car for more than a month after this haha. I need to just leave things alone

 

The rear speakers may get a full range signal, but not sure.
the convertible doesn't have the rear speakers themselves but I think the wires were there last time I opened all this. Or maybe just in the armrest. I'm sure you can get the information here in an old thread.
But in this case, bye bye the headunit settings.

I took my convertible this morning (stock system), and quickly tried to get an idea on Xovers with an RTA app on my phone.
It's really not precise since I could only play with balance/fader and point my phone to each speaker to increase their answer range. I got something roughly:
Low 0>2KHz
Mid 2 - 4KHz
High >4KHz

After that I checked my tweeters, cap is 50v 2.2uF.
Didn't test for their impedance but the high pass filter may be:
- for 8 ohms > 9000Hz
- 16 ohms > 4500Hz
Consistent with the RTA measurements.