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My car a 2004 XK8 started this story about 5 weeks ago, I will try and fill in all of the details and hope it helps to get her running again.
I am located in London, Ontario Canada we have a local JLR dealer. I have had the car 8 years and done all the maintenance. It has been a reliable well running car. Starting 5 weeks ago:
a.) Drove car on a road trip 200 miles each way and car ran flawlessly. Parked in garage in the evening, battery tender hooked up as usual.
b.) Next morning went to start car to head on a day trip to Niagara Falls, Engine started ran rough lots of warning lights and messages. I shut it down.
c.) Tried to start again, ran rough, stumbled and coughed. Shut her down.
d.) Put my ELM327 and Torque Pro on her for an OBDII diagnostic. Result P0603 - Powertrain Internal Control Module Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Error. Also, P1611 (Ford) Loss of CVRTD Serial Data.
e.) I did the hard reset several times, but to no avail.
At this point I got on the forums and inquired, it was suggested that this was a similar problem from earlier cars where the capacitor's leaked on the Control module damaging the traces on the board and rendering it inoperative.
It was suggested by people on the forums that I sent it to Module Experts in Jacksonville Florida for repair. The received it said my diagnosis was correct, but they were unable to repair it.
In the meantime, I had found an identical module to the one in my car from an accident victim and ordered that. When it came, I put it in the car would not recognize my keys and would not even turn on the ignition. I called Module Experts to see about programming this one, but they said just take it to a local Ford Dealer and they should be able to program it. The local Ford dealer had no idea what I was talking about, and I was not feeling inclined to explain the history of Ford and Jaguar.
f.) I had the car transported to my local JLR dealer as at least they knew what I was talking about.
g.) They tried to program the replacement module, but as it was from another car with an already installed VIN they said their software would not allow a reprogramming.
h.) They also had computer connection problems as 4 of the pins on my OBDII terminal were corroded. They sent a photo, and they definitely were. They got that sorted.
i.) The only way they could reprogram the module was to buy a new module. I ordered it and fortunately there was one 3 days away. ($2600.00 Canadian)
j.) They had difficulty reprograming the new module and after calls to JLR in England they were told they needed the original module to retrieve the software from that one to install on the new one.
k.) I got the old module back from Florida, they retrieved the software and installed it on the new module.
At this point now the car starts and sounds good for about 2 seconds and then gets shut off by something, it does not stumble or run out of fuel, it just shuts off.
The Jag mechanic has put another 5 hours of trying to figure it out, the fuel pump is fine and there is good fuel pressure to the rail, injection system is good and ignition system is good.
At this point I have run up a $4250.00 bill at Jaguar and I can 't afford to keep having them trying to solve it at $169.00 and hour when the technician tells me he really doesn't know where to go next.
I have ordered the OBDII connector and software from Jaguar Diagnostics hoping that it will give me some help in a direction to search.
Surely, I can't be the first person to have this issue, and someone can help.
Please don't waste time expounding on your views of Jaguar dealers as I am quite satisfied that they gave it a good shot and do not expect them to be up to date on 18-year-old cars they never see in the shop. It is not a weak battery or a hard reset, it runs for the identical 2 seconds on every startup and then is shut down for some reason.
Any help appreciated.
I did not realize that it could be so sad to lose a car.
This is an intriguing puzzle, but if I spent $4,000, I would be using other words to describe it.
Though I don't have a 2004 XK8, I've had a bit of experience chasing down electrical faults on my 1997. This is what I would do:
1) Get your OBDII reader connections functioning. You may have to consult a schematic. (I rewired mine. It wasn't a lot of fun.)
2) I took a look at the trouble codes. For some reason, I can't easily find 2004 specific Jaguar XK8 codes, but 1997 (4.0L) and 2003 (?) are easily available.
You are correct in that the 0603 code points to the ECM. 1611 however, is listed as either a problem with the throttle position sensor or the key security system.
Once you get your reader going, first thing I would see is if the new ECM is still giving you the 0603 code. If it is, I would carefully remove it, put the old one back in and set the new one aside. No sense damaging a $2,600 device that isn't the cause of your problem. After you get this thing fixed, I'd try like heck to get my money back.
3) Assuming the new ECM is still flagging the old problem, I'd go after the two likely faults. Before believing my research, I would try to nail down a 2004 DTC code book to see if other faults are identified. But let's say your problem lies with either the key or the throttle body. My '97 doesn't have a key chip (or a sophisticated one at any rate) so I may be underestimating the problem. But at this point, I would take the key to the dealer or independent if they have the tools, and try to have it reprogrammed. It's possible your problems can be chased back to your key. And I might not be right here, but I think the security key shuts off the fuel rather than the ignition. So a 2 second run before shutdown is possible.
If it's not the key, I'd go after the throttle position sensor. Again, if I'm not mistaken, the TPS is part of the throttle body. So you will be faced with getting a new, rebuilt or used piece of expensive kit. Given the money you've already spent, I'd take a shot on used. I'm kind of an eBay repair guy. My repairs don't always have the best longevity, but at least a used part can identify the problem and the price difference is significant.
4) That's my approach. I'm not a certified technician, but given the time I've usually been able to track down electrical maladies. My friends on the forum are welcome to disagree with this approach. So go with it friends. That's how problems are solved.
Are there any circumstances where the ECU or another control unit panics and says 'sod this I'm shutting the engine down to protect it'?
Only thing I can find (and I think it relates to the X-type, although it may be implemented in the 4.2L) is an excerpt from one of the manuals in this post of zray's (see engine cooling strategy): https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...9/#post2516678
The 2003 DTC list does not allude to a security/key issue for a P1611, plus it's not being thrown now?
I'm not aware of any more recent DTC information for our cars.
I saw the same 1611 entry. However I also saw either a comment or cryptic note on the forum about 1611 relating to the key/immobilizer. A key is easier to fix than a throttle body. Further research may be required. I can't swear my suggestions are on the right path. Either way, if the original code ECM code is still present, my thought is that the problem isn't in the ECM. Or if it is, then it's the responsibility of the shop that ordered the part to reprogram it properly.
If the problem is the ECM, then, despite the cost, that's good news. Problem solved.
Last edited by Truck Graphics; 09-21-2022 at 06:15 PM.
If the ECM wrongly thought the engine temperature was in excess of 166 then I assume it would take it a moment to notice and act. You could perhaps have Torque display the temperature without the engine running and then start the engine and see what it thinks the water temperature is. However, torque and the ECM may notice the high temperature at the same time and torque doesn't get to display it when the engine starts and shuts down. I doubt that you could get it to log the temperature from within 2 seconds of starting either.
It might be worth checking the water sender connections. My external temperature reads high due to a dirty connection (I think).
Electrically, these cars do all kinds of unpredictable things, so yes, maybe, until it kinda "realizes" that all the checks haven't been satisfied...then shuts down.. That "system check" (is that the IC message?).. Is it still doing the 2 second start then stop still happening, or is it just flat, now??? I would also imagine it wouldnt crank (no starter) with an IMMU triggered.
After experiencing this issue, after allllllllllll of this work, replacement of electrical part and electrical changes, has anyone COMPLETELY reset the system, hard reset, and gone to give it another try? I'm superstitious,,, and when I do a hard reset I start with the key at OFF, clip the battery cables together, turn the key to the ON position, and walk away - overnight. In recent thinking, I've kinda concluded that turning the key to ON makes no difference - because without the battery connected, the relays don't engage and complete circuits to major modules anyways. But I still do it, lol... Still, for the circuits of the ECU, BPM, key transponder module etc,,, I guess one COULD jumper the main relays in the door jam fuse boxes and under the hood to put those modules in the circuit to drain the capacitors and residual charge. Just a thought.
Personally, in this day and age, where working for Jiffy Lube for 6 months gives one the necessary experience to work in a car shop, especially a corporate type car shop, I have very very little faith in mechanics - unless I KNOW they are a good mechanic. I have a story about a renowned Jaguar specialist here where I lived who (and admittedly it wasn't your usual issue) had me running in circles chasing false and wrong solutions for a similar no start problem I was having. He never even got CLOSE to diagnosing the issue - $600 and several replacement parts later - no go... Anywho,,,
09-20-2022, 08:45 AM
Starts and shuts down in 2 seconds
