Hey, Steve.......

Now that I've had a chance to slow down a bit, let me say I'm sorry for sounding snotty there. I see that now. What I was trying to say is, we want to be careful and not lead someone less experienced into trouble. In these cases the wrong relay can ruin a guy's day pretty quick.

Anyway, sorry my friend!

Cheers,

 

Thanks Steve, but there is really no need to apologize, I had my facts wrong and I agree the wrong relay could cause headaches.

I ended up doing some research on diodes vs. resistors for spike protection and am better for this knowledge.

 

Steve did you want to try the tests with the original KTM ,it will allow the car to operate "normal" some of the time, or use the replacement KTM which will not let the car start at all.
Tom

 

Steve the vin is SAJDA4C41NA18331

 

Geez! I forgot to mention that....... sorry.

Use the original KTM.

 

Steve there is one relay with 70 ohms across the coil/resistor , in the panel next to the brake system (the one you suggested to change) others show 92 ohms in same box

 

I wouldn't sweat about the relay coil resistances at this point. There must have been a replacement installed somewhere along the line. Relays back in the XJ40 era and up through the early V8 cars [those were blue], were usually around 70-75 ohms. The later brown or black and current relays are almost all dead on 94 ohms. That resistance shouldn't pose a problem here, but your car should have the brown or black ones.

Cheers,

 

Steve, all brown, will continue on with the KTM replacement back to original, and continue with testing as outlined.
Thanks

 

Steve had to order relays, will be here Monday or Tuesday. After putting all back together and following instructions (with old relays) all is working today network will allow me to read all except KTM (still getting no response from it) will post more later as it develops as I feel sure it will.

 

tried car this morning for meeting and would not start after breakfast until unhooking battery for a while and resetting all computers. More later

 

Do we have a car that starts every time?

 

Steve, here goes
1. Replace the relays you see boxed in the attached document, and one each in the dash fuseboxes. [at this car's age, even if they are not the direct cause, they are suspect, period] Any decent quality, 40A capacity part will suffice. Just be sure it has a dropping resistor across the coil.
OK
2. Disconnect the battery for several minutes.
OK
3. Reconnect.
OK
4. With the doors and windows closed, lock the vehicle using the key.
OK
– Using the key, unlock the vehicle and hold the key in the unlocked position (global open). If both doors unlock, all windows open, and if equipped, the convertible top opens, data messages were communicated between the DDCM, PDCM, BPM and SLCM.
OK all worked as described
– Switch the ignition to position II, set and recall a seat memory position. Open and close the driver door while watching the door ajar INST warning.
If the seat memory works, data messages were communicated between DDCM, BPM and DSCM.
If the door ajar warning is active with the door open and becomes inactive with the door closed, a data message was communicated between the DDCM and the INST.

That is a function test of the SCP Network. That eliminates it as complicit here.
OK
5. Ignition on, step on the brake and see if the shifter releases from Park. If so, great, back to Park. If not, we'll have to tackle that.
NOT Working--(tried before relay change and it worked fine) engine would start then
6. Step on brake, grit teeth, try to start the engine. IMMEDIATELY look at the shifter and see if there is any action from the little LED a bit to the left of the "P".
No LED activity (communications thru the OBDII port, ISO-9141/2 is not available at this time) AC unit shows code 14
I can not see any change at this time will retry to start car after several hours of it being locked

 

Tom,

With the results you provided I'm about ready to zero in on the Instrument Pack as the culprit. Your sharp eye and noticing the Climate code 14 helped a lot. The loss of starting, no interlock release AND the temp fault in the Climate Control pretty much tells us it's most likely the Gateway Module, which is the IP. Your KTM issue is therefore most likely a symptom rather than the fault.
Let me ponder a bit to see if I can come up with a way to better confirm this, or catch it in the act. You'll have to run some CAN Network tests if we can catch it. You OK with some pinout testing with a voltmeter or ohmmeter??

Cheers,

 

OK on VOM usage, used to do electronics work for a living (microwave systems and control systems repair for oil pipeline company) before retiring

 

If you clear the climate control 14 code, then check to see if it returns you will confirm that the code is reflecting a current condition.

If it returns, I agree, the instrument cluster is highly suspect.

 

sometimes will return right away other times may wait a little while (car is not running during this period and comm on network is not available) let it set for a couple of hours and all is ok to start (without unhooking battery)

 

Damn Gus, did you have to say that. I mean I am DYING to say something.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wb5Tom

sometimes will return right away other times may wait a little while (car is not running during this period and comm on network is not available) let it set for a couple of hours and all is ok to start (without unhooking battery)

Tom,


I think the next best step is to do a resistance test when the car in a failure mode, not starting and has communication faults. This will require removing the ECM box cover so you can get to the ECM connectors. I chose this spot so we can test the CAN network in two directions, and also possibly determine if the ECM could be at fault.


See the attached, and when you catch the car at a point the systems are down, carefully test the resistance at the pin pairs listed. Find something that is a similar size to the ECM pins so you can test resistance right through the connector terminals, WITHOUT springing the terminals open too wide and causing connection problems. Remember the pins shown on the sheet are as they appear on the ECM, looking at the harness connector it will be a mirror image. I’d compare adjacent wire colors to confirm you have the correct terminal.


When everything is right, you should see 120 ohms on each pair of terminals. We are looking for some anomaly in that measurement when the car is messed up. If you can catch the failure a couple of times and the resistance is always correct both ways, that COULD indicate the ECM might be the culprit. If we catch the resistance wrong in one direction, that will give us something to go on. Baby steps; be patient.


Good luck!

 

Well today (Saturday) I tried everything to make it not start, plugged and unplugged relays and it works, tried starting at least 30 times and it worked, let engine temp come up to 203 and it all worked (had an indication of 14 on ac unit but it cleared and would not come back(yet), also showed 2 can errors on the instrument cluster module but would not shut down car (still showing DTC 1000) so will take it for a ride and try again. The can lines showed 120 and 123 ohms at ECM cable before starting test today. Later I am sure
Thanks

 

Chances are you might have fixed the problem simply be moving it or reseating something and you may never experience the problem again. OK, now back to the real world of Jaguar, cross your fingers and hope you fixed it.

My experience is that every plug I pull every connection I disconnect I clean with a contact cleaner and I apply a little dielectric grease to eliminate any possibility of poor connections in the future and it works for me.