Streamlining the X100???
#1
12-09-2020, 05:04 PM
Streamlining the X100???
Now I have two XKs of the x100 type. One 8 and one R. I love them both and still have quite a bit of work to do, especially on the R.... Of course I am still learning.
Both convertibles, I plan on holding on to mine for a long long time... But really, that will seriously depend on some things.
As I am thinking about what it will mean at 25yrs, and a MUCH simpler set of inspection requirements here in the good ol USA, I am really wondering if it is possible to do away with ALL of those things that trigger a CEL, Restricted Performance, Fail-Safe Mode, and the hundred faults we all know so well. The things that STOP an often VERY drivable car, from being drivable.
I dream of a slimmed down XK 8 or R. A machine that kinda just breaths and runs with fuel without all the systems that raise ALARMS - if ya know what I mean...?
Is there a way to have one of these cars that run the way they can and do, without all of those fail safe systems that get in the way? Can they be ripped out,,, down to the bare essentials? Streamlined, so to speak???
If not, what does the future hold for the XK x100 where a bum solder joint can shut the whole car down?
Both convertibles, I plan on holding on to mine for a long long time... But really, that will seriously depend on some things.
As I am thinking about what it will mean at 25yrs, and a MUCH simpler set of inspection requirements here in the good ol USA, I am really wondering if it is possible to do away with ALL of those things that trigger a CEL, Restricted Performance, Fail-Safe Mode, and the hundred faults we all know so well. The things that STOP an often VERY drivable car, from being drivable.
I dream of a slimmed down XK 8 or R. A machine that kinda just breaths and runs with fuel without all the systems that raise ALARMS - if ya know what I mean...?
Is there a way to have one of these cars that run the way they can and do, without all of those fail safe systems that get in the way? Can they be ripped out,,, down to the bare essentials? Streamlined, so to speak???
If not, what does the future hold for the XK x100 where a bum solder joint can shut the whole car down?
Last edited by JayJagJay; 12-09-2020 at 05:15 PM.
#2
12-09-2020, 07:15 PM
Well, as a Norwegian reading this from an American, my first thought is "here we go again". Yet another car that will be destroyed by a standard US engine swap; Chevy 350 with an old carb! 
First of all I dont agree with you that this Jags has hundreds of fault we all know so well.
Its just that after 25 years everything needs maintenance, also the electrics.
The world goes on and it is 50 years since a car was just mechanic.
But if I should answer your question, I would consider a new engine management system. I have used Megasquirt my self and if you do a good job when installing and programming it will work well for the next 25 years. But it isnt for free and it is a lot of work. It will probably be better to overhaul the original system once and for all instead.
I have worked on cars for the last 35 years and dont think that we can do a better job than the engineers that constructed the cars. But here and there they may have used a solution that is a little to cheap, and that is what we can modify and maybe come up with a better solution. The trick is to find those problems and fix them before the car stops.
First of all I dont agree with you that this Jags has hundreds of fault we all know so well.
Its just that after 25 years everything needs maintenance, also the electrics.
The world goes on and it is 50 years since a car was just mechanic.
But if I should answer your question, I would consider a new engine management system. I have used Megasquirt my self and if you do a good job when installing and programming it will work well for the next 25 years. But it isnt for free and it is a lot of work. It will probably be better to overhaul the original system once and for all instead.
I have worked on cars for the last 35 years and dont think that we can do a better job than the engineers that constructed the cars. But here and there they may have used a solution that is a little to cheap, and that is what we can modify and maybe come up with a better solution. The trick is to find those problems and fix them before the car stops.
#3
12-09-2020, 08:33 PM
Veteran Member
The following users liked this post:
Higgins (12-11-2020)
#4
12-09-2020, 09:21 PM
Well, as a Norwegian reading this from an American, my first thought is "here we go again". Yet another car that will be destroyed by a standard US engine swap; Chevy 350 with an old carb!
First of all I dont agree with you that this Jags has hundreds of fault we all know so well.
Its just that after 25 years everything needs maintenance, also the electrics.
The world goes on and it is 50 years since a car was just mechanic.
But if I should answer your question, I would consider a new engine management system. I have used Megasquirt my self and if you do a good job when installing and programming it will work well for the next 25 years. But it isnt for free and it is a lot of work. It will probably be better to overhaul the original system once and for all instead.
I have worked on cars for the last 35 years and dont think that we can do a better job than the engineers that constructed the cars. But here and there they may have used a solution that is a little to cheap, and that is what we can modify and maybe come up with a better solution. The trick is to find those problems and fix them before the car stops.
First of all I dont agree with you that this Jags has hundreds of fault we all know so well.
Its just that after 25 years everything needs maintenance, also the electrics.
The world goes on and it is 50 years since a car was just mechanic.
But if I should answer your question, I would consider a new engine management system. I have used Megasquirt my self and if you do a good job when installing and programming it will work well for the next 25 years. But it isnt for free and it is a lot of work. It will probably be better to overhaul the original system once and for all instead.
I have worked on cars for the last 35 years and dont think that we can do a better job than the engineers that constructed the cars. But here and there they may have used a solution that is a little to cheap, and that is what we can modify and maybe come up with a better solution. The trick is to find those problems and fix them before the car stops.
The MegaSquirt is more reliable?
Which is an answer to my question.
Here, after a car is 25yrs old, one can easily find shops that will give the all's good and put a sticker in it - legal to drive. But for me, as things slowly deteriorate with TIME, which does happen, I would love to be able to (like in my XJS) eliminate many if not all of the emissions stuff (as we say) and get it closer to something that is just air, gas and spark...
I have not nearly enough know how (at this point) to know if it is possible to pare down my XK8 so all of those preventive safety measures would no longer be in the way in a pare down, so I ask. To me, preventatives and safety measures ARE frustrating and can VERY much get in the way.
But, from just the couple reactions so far,,, I guess folks don't see that to be possible with these cars. Original engine, air gas and spark - without all the layers.
I think it's a perfectly reasonable question.
If I push my "trak off" button, the car goes haywire today. So I just don't push it. Who the hell needs ABS?
Last edited by JayJagJay; 12-09-2020 at 09:24 PM.
#5
12-09-2020, 09:33 PM
Like, turn the key and the fuel pump runs without relying on 4 other processors to say it's ok...and an alarm system passive and hard set.
Maybe it's a stupid question and it's just not possible. Which I guess is the reason so many of these cars are sadly sadly super sadly laid up in the first place?
Maybe it's a stupid question and it's just not possible. Which I guess is the reason so many of these cars are sadly sadly super sadly laid up in the first place?
The following users liked this post:
TedV (12-09-2020)
#6
12-10-2020, 12:29 AM
I'm with ya Jay. I dream of a simplified mostly analog car. I love this thing and frankly I don't think I would ever get to doing it but there are waaaaaay too many electronics controlling waaaaaay too many things. It's a shame when we see an XK8 in the junk yard when it's the electronics that put it there.
It's a joy to drive because of the engine, suspension, solid BE-A-U-T-FUL body and yes, even the transmission. I don't need that many processors and ECU's. Just sayin', TM
It's a joy to drive because of the engine, suspension, solid BE-A-U-T-FUL body and yes, even the transmission. I don't need that many processors and ECU's. Just sayin', TM
The following users liked this post:
Pristine97XK8Convertible (12-10-2020)
#7
12-10-2020, 07:30 AM
I'm with ya Jay. I dream of a simplified mostly analog car. I love this thing and frankly I don't think I would ever get to doing it but there are waaaaaay too many electronics controlling waaaaaay too many things. It's a shame when we see an XK8 in the junk yard when it's the electronics that put it there.
It's a joy to drive because of the engine, suspension, solid BE-A-U-T-FUL body and yes, even the transmission. I don't need that many processors and ECU's. Just sayin', TM
It's a joy to drive because of the engine, suspension, solid BE-A-U-T-FUL body and yes, even the transmission. I don't need that many processors and ECU's. Just sayin', TM
I really do, and there has to be a way...
My severe limitation has to do with my understanding of electronics (which is at the heart of this, really). I can do most anything else and am at least willing to try.
I have 5yrs or so to think about it and will absolutely be continuing to be. There are great not car related electrical forums and I wonder if folks there would be willing to offer guidance. I live in NYC and lots of elevators run on CAN style systems (for instance) and they are refit and updated all the time. There has to be a way to trick and fool the electrics, or delete them and work around.
When my XJS, for instance, is misfiring,,, I have to HEAR it and do something about it, and I have. Same with vacuum leaks, over and underfueling, ignition issues and the like. ABS or putting the top down/up at the wrong time doesn't have the ability to tangle up the electrical system in the entire car etc...
I would LOVE my XK8 to be simpler where possible. I don't think it's such a bad idea.
Last edited by JayJagJay; 12-10-2020 at 07:39 AM.
Trending Topics
#8
12-10-2020, 07:35 AM
Veteran Member
As the sort of person who will happily throw a carburetor in the bin and replace it with fuel injection and sensors, what you are advocating sounds like an argument that we should light our homes with whale oil because that new fangled electricity is just too complicated..
Automobiles are more reliable, more efficient and more powerful because of the electronics. Safer and more convenient too.
But to each his own, if someone want to put a couple of Webers on their AJ V8 and replace the ZF transmission with a Powerglide, then more power to them. All of my cars will be heading the other direction.
Automobiles are more reliable, more efficient and more powerful because of the electronics. Safer and more convenient too.
But to each his own, if someone want to put a couple of Webers on their AJ V8 and replace the ZF transmission with a Powerglide, then more power to them. All of my cars will be heading the other direction.
The following users liked this post:
Markel (12-16-2020)
#9
12-10-2020, 11:05 AM
Senior Member
If not, what does the future hold for the XK x100 where a bum solder joint can shut the whole car down?
#10
12-10-2020, 11:43 AM
Now I have two XKs of the x100 type. One 8 and one R. I love them both and still have quite a bit of work to do, especially on the R.... Of course I am still learning.
Both convertibles, I plan on holding on to mine for a long long time... But really, that will seriously depend on some things.
As I am thinking about what it will mean at 25yrs, and a MUCH simpler set of inspection requirements here in the good ol USA, I am really wondering if it is possible to do away with ALL of those things that trigger a CEL, Restricted Performance, Fail-Safe Mode, and the hundred faults we all know so well. The things that STOP an often VERY drivable car, from being drivable.
I dream of a slimmed down XK 8 or R. A machine that kinda just breaths and runs with fuel without all the systems that raise ALARMS - if ya know what I mean...?
Is there a way to have one of these cars that run the way they can and do, without all of those fail safe systems that get in the way? Can they be ripped out,,, down to the bare essentials? Streamlined, so to speak???
If not, what does the future hold for the XK x100 where a bum solder joint can shut the whole car down?
Both convertibles, I plan on holding on to mine for a long long time... But really, that will seriously depend on some things.
As I am thinking about what it will mean at 25yrs, and a MUCH simpler set of inspection requirements here in the good ol USA, I am really wondering if it is possible to do away with ALL of those things that trigger a CEL, Restricted Performance, Fail-Safe Mode, and the hundred faults we all know so well. The things that STOP an often VERY drivable car, from being drivable.
I dream of a slimmed down XK 8 or R. A machine that kinda just breaths and runs with fuel without all the systems that raise ALARMS - if ya know what I mean...?
Is there a way to have one of these cars that run the way they can and do, without all of those fail safe systems that get in the way? Can they be ripped out,,, down to the bare essentials? Streamlined, so to speak???
If not, what does the future hold for the XK x100 where a bum solder joint can shut the whole car down?
Now, I've had MECHANICAL issues in that time.....such as the oil cooler lines dumping every drop of oil on the 40 freeway @80mph, the rear wing window regulator going bad, the dreaded GREEN DRIP from the top locking mechanism, the driver seat electronics malfunctioning and making the headrest touch the steering wheel ( paper clip and duct tape fix, believe it or not!), alternator dying, etc.
But overall, I really believe for the most part that XK's are a victim of time taking it's toll...and they're the "Hot Wife that needs extra extra attention" to run well. I tell anybody who asks, "Do NOT buy a used Jag, if you don't know how to work on a Jag. Period." It's a labor of Love, and practicality goes out the window when you buy a used Jag.
Just my $0.02
The following users liked this post:
ccfulton (12-10-2020)
#11
12-10-2020, 04:35 PM
As the sort of person who will happily throw a carburetor in the bin and replace it with fuel injection and sensors, what you are advocating sounds like an argument that we should light our homes with whale oil because that new fangled electricity is just too complicated..
Automobiles are more reliable, more efficient and more powerful because of the electronics. Safer and more convenient too.
But to each his own, if someone want to put a couple of Webers on their AJ V8 and replace the ZF transmission with a Powerglide, then more power to them. All of my cars will be heading the other direction.
Automobiles are more reliable, more efficient and more powerful because of the electronics. Safer and more convenient too.
But to each his own, if someone want to put a couple of Webers on their AJ V8 and replace the ZF transmission with a Powerglide, then more power to them. All of my cars will be heading the other direction.
We are talking about the excessive electronics controlling so much. MY opinion worth exactly what you paid for it, is: Fuel injection, ignition, ABS and stereo is about all I would need to be electronic. I wouldn't care if it had roll up windows. And there is no way in hell I'd trade my 6-speed auto for a Powerguide. It was a bad idea then. LOL
#12
12-10-2020, 04:54 PM
Veteran Member
The following 2 users liked this post by crbass:
cjd777 (12-10-2020),
ericrucker (12-11-2020)
#13
12-10-2020, 06:57 PM
I ain't familiare with the BUS/CAN system in this Jag's. But I have a strong feeling that you would get a hole lot of trouble if you tried to change out some of the electronics (to make it simpler) and at the same time loosing the communication with the other electronic controllers.
I do like KISS and DIY but in this case I am pretty sure that it will be less work and cheaper to change all the sensors, hoses and so on as a service maintenance. The biggest problem is the cheap and brittle plastic Jaguar used in all the connectors and stuff. You could end up braking more parts than you fixed!
I do like KISS and DIY but in this case I am pretty sure that it will be less work and cheaper to change all the sensors, hoses and so on as a service maintenance. The biggest problem is the cheap and brittle plastic Jaguar used in all the connectors and stuff. You could end up braking more parts than you fixed!
#14
12-10-2020, 07:43 PM
I ain't familiare with the BUS/CAN system in this Jag's. But I have a strong feeling that you would get a hole lot of trouble if you tried to change out some of the electronics (to make it simpler) and at the same time loosing the communication with the other electronic controllers.
I do like KISS and DIY but in this case I am pretty sure that it will be less work and cheaper to change all the sensors, hoses and so on as a service maintenance. The biggest problem is the cheap and brittle plastic Jaguar used in all the connectors and stuff. You could end up braking more parts than you fixed!
I do like KISS and DIY but in this case I am pretty sure that it will be less work and cheaper to change all the sensors, hoses and so on as a service maintenance. The biggest problem is the cheap and brittle plastic Jaguar used in all the connectors and stuff. You could end up braking more parts than you fixed!
Where would one even begin and how?
Changing a sensor and regular maintenance is not a big deal to me. Not worrisome - I actually enjoy that work. What is, are the twilight zone spaces in between. We call them GREMLINS here. A well and often used word on the forum, and GREMLINS are real. Sometimes, the problems are almost unexplainable - hence the near joke reply to any problem - get a new battery...
I honestly can't believe folks are reacting as though I'm kinda just sitting over here making things up.... We ALL know that owning one of these cars can take you into another universe of strange car issues. I don't even know how to take denying this reality seriously. It's like,,,, whaaaaaaa?
I have a car (used to start OCCASIONALLY with the key - then it stopped), if I start it by JUMPING the starter relay, car starts and runs "normal" (beautifully actually) except,,, it seems the "ok to fuel" signal has gotten completely lost in the sauce and the fuel pump has to be hotwired causing a code - fuel pressure to high - and only 3 to 4v makes it to the starter relay when the key is turned,,, but will not trigger the relay to start with the key. It's been to 3 mechanics - came out the same way it went in. They can't figure it out, nor can I...
All "new" fuse boxes, instrument cluster, body processing module, all programmed and talking nicely to eachother... Nothing solves it. No codes (other than the high pressure code) when running. An enigma... No fun. The Gremlin...
Then, there are the bolts that shear off, the strange hair brained engineering choices of using materials and fasteners that can drive one nutts. A major section of suspension set up where a moving/pivoting, weight loaded, solid steel 14inch long 3/4 inch thick bolt (upper control arm bolt) is carried by two naked holes punched in a cast aluminum subframe - a disaster... Lol. I was working on an S Type the other day and in order to remove the timing chain cover one has to remove the cooling fans, the rad (maybe), the alternator, the AC pump, the power steering pump AND the brackets that hold them - in order to remove TWO 8mm bolts that hold the cover to the engine!!! TWO! Like, crazy maker. Don't get me started on changing/checking/filling the trans fluid. Or the ABS and traction control system. Nutts. Or the differential fluid...
Look. I think all of the folks here are AMAZING and I am thankful to high heavens for ya, the teaching you offer, the insights and solutions that can be desperately needed,,, but to blame diy XK8 lovers and send praise to those wackOs at Jaguar (I guess?) in this instance - well, I just don't get it.
There has to be a way, as these cars age, to clean up allllll of those strange layered potential electrical nightmares and bring these car to there sweet and simple goodness. That's just me.
And I ain't talking about adding a carburator or whale oil powered headlights, lol... Maybe whale oil for the tails because "check rear lights" is in the dash,,,, OH, hold the whale oil cuz even though the dash says they're not working,,, actually they are.
#15
12-11-2020, 09:22 AM
Veteran Member
Maybe it's just that my curmudgeonlyness peaked in the early 2000s rather than the decade or two before. The x100 IMO has just the right amount of electronical stuff and convenience features, before touch screens and lane departure warnings and autopilots and that junk I turn off in every rental car as soon as I get in.
Then, there are the bolts that shear off, the strange hair brained engineering choices of using materials and fasteners that can drive one nutts. A major section of suspension set up where a moving/pivoting, weight loaded, solid steel 14inch long 3/4 inch thick bolt (upper control arm bolt) is carried by two naked holes punched in a cast aluminum subframe - a disaster... Lol. I was working on an S Type the other day and in order to remove the timing chain cover one has to remove the cooling fans, the rad (maybe), the alternator, the AC pump, the power steering pump AND the brackets that hold them - in order to remove TWO 8mm bolts that hold the cover to the engine!!! TWO! Like, crazy maker. Don't get me started on changing/checking/filling the trans fluid. Or the ABS and traction control system. Nutts. Or the differential fluid...
#16
12-11-2020, 10:21 PM
Veteran Member
Having two of these. One low mile one high, I been through it all. Besides typical maintenance the major issues I found were TPS (causes limp mode), alternator (causes all sorts of funny things to happen), transmission conductor plate (limp mode) ABS module. less critical but important IC pump. So I put a new TPS on, an upgraded higher amp alternator, full transmission service with AMG solenoids and sonnax kit (I did replace transmission....did i mention the service is critical) and the ABS module I repaired myself.
I did end up getting a rod knock which I thought may had been a supercharged issue so I rebuilt the SC, did the upper chain tensioners. Put it back together and well I should have just drained the oil first. Thus my 4.2 project still not complete.
Off course there is the various water hoses and vacuum lines that can become brittle and break but I've been lucky I suppose. oh and that IC pump
Overall people complain. But really the car isn't al that bad sans those few issues I mentioned on top. Seems the TPS are just to fragile, Transmission plastic bits are just to fragile with age and that dam ABS module
I did end up getting a rod knock which I thought may had been a supercharged issue so I rebuilt the SC, did the upper chain tensioners. Put it back together and well I should have just drained the oil first. Thus my 4.2 project still not complete.
Off course there is the various water hoses and vacuum lines that can become brittle and break but I've been lucky I suppose. oh and that IC pump
Overall people complain. But really the car isn't al that bad sans those few issues I mentioned on top. Seems the TPS are just to fragile, Transmission plastic bits are just to fragile with age and that dam ABS module
#17
12-12-2020, 05:04 PM
Veteran Member
I have always said of All things British, "Two hundred years of tradition, totally unhampered by progress". This after living in London, for 1 month, visiting over 3 years and owning 3 Jags.
NOW, if I wanted a completely reliable car, without any day to day problems, I would buy a Toyota Corolla. We buy our cars to be a little different. At least we do not have to contend with Lucas ignition systems. The secret is to join the forum, ask for help, and have a good local mechanic, or Jag mechanic.
NOW, if I wanted a completely reliable car, without any day to day problems, I would buy a Toyota Corolla. We buy our cars to be a little different. At least we do not have to contend with Lucas ignition systems. The secret is to join the forum, ask for help, and have a good local mechanic, or Jag mechanic.
#18
12-13-2020, 06:50 AM
I have always said of All things British, "Two hundred years of tradition, totally unhampered by progress". This after living in London, for 1 month, visiting over 3 years and owning 3 Jags.
NOW, if I wanted a completely reliable car, without any day to day problems, I would buy a Toyota Corolla. We buy our cars to be a little different. At least we do not have to contend with Lucas ignition systems. The secret is to join the forum, ask for help, and have a good local mechanic, or Jag mechanic.
NOW, if I wanted a completely reliable car, without any day to day problems, I would buy a Toyota Corolla. We buy our cars to be a little different. At least we do not have to contend with Lucas ignition systems. The secret is to join the forum, ask for help, and have a good local mechanic, or Jag mechanic.
That's why I have Hondas and Nissans for every day.
Thanks for listening. "Hi my name is Tom and I'm a Jagoholic" group says "Hi Tom!" "I've been a Jagolholic since 1974 when I bought a '67 FHC-XKE, really may have started before that"............
#19
12-13-2020, 07:59 AM
Veteran Member