Supercharger pulley adventures
#21
02-23-2015, 10:59 AM
Steigemeyer is posting on their facebook later today/ http://stiegemeier.com , a Jaguar Eaton, that they heavily modded, to show us their work IN HOUSE
Recently, I personally watched a 2001 XKR have the lower pulley swap a cheap aftermarket inter cooler(ebay),custom cold air intake and low temp thermostat make 60lbs MORE torque 2800-4900rpms at the engine on the dyno at my local speed shop doing 6 dyno runs, so the ecm could adapt! NO TUNING DID TO THE CAR AT ALL.
Thats freaking huge ! The owner did not allow a video for face book to respect his privacy and sleeper approach, but oh well, I was there and seen the smile on his face
The 2001 XKR made 396 hp and 425 Ftlb of torque ,stock was like 353 HP ,365ftbls.
You must use 93 octane or higher, or the knock sensors will dial your timing down,READ THIS 5 TIMES.
For under $1,000 bucks , that's insane ! Now, a ported eaton with the snout cooler mod would make a little more 20-30, but watching that dyno, was all I needed to see and tell you guys what happened.
Now, if you want to run a bigger lower, and smaller upper for very high boost, a meth injection kit will be needed, and the gains will be better, I did this on a eaton ford lightning myself, so I know, it works.I ran it for 6 years before selling the car.
Recently, I personally watched a 2001 XKR have the lower pulley swap a cheap aftermarket inter cooler(ebay),custom cold air intake and low temp thermostat make 60lbs MORE torque 2800-4900rpms at the engine on the dyno at my local speed shop doing 6 dyno runs, so the ecm could adapt! NO TUNING DID TO THE CAR AT ALL.
Thats freaking huge ! The owner did not allow a video for face book to respect his privacy and sleeper approach, but oh well, I was there and seen the smile on his face
The 2001 XKR made 396 hp and 425 Ftlb of torque ,stock was like 353 HP ,365ftbls.
You must use 93 octane or higher, or the knock sensors will dial your timing down,READ THIS 5 TIMES.
For under $1,000 bucks , that's insane ! Now, a ported eaton with the snout cooler mod would make a little more 20-30, but watching that dyno, was all I needed to see and tell you guys what happened.
Now, if you want to run a bigger lower, and smaller upper for very high boost, a meth injection kit will be needed, and the gains will be better, I did this on a eaton ford lightning myself, so I know, it works.I ran it for 6 years before selling the car.
Last edited by aode06; 02-23-2015 at 11:09 AM.
#22
02-24-2015, 10:05 PM
The following users liked this post:
Naso--Lituratus (03-24-2015)
#23
02-24-2015, 10:22 PM
Veteran Member
#25
02-26-2015, 08:26 AM
Yeah this heat exchanger here,
Heat Exchanger Air to Water Intercooler Cobalt Mustang | eBay
One is good for our 4.0, and 4.2, it has a fill and drain for easy servicing and just $140.00
Be sure to use distilled water, a bottle of water wetter, and a low temp thermostat and use SUPER GAS 93 octane or HIGHER and reset the ecm.
Your knock sensors will retard timing significantly if you fail to do so.
To lower IAT'S a fan or two on it is great advice,as previous test on the dyno have proved a fan or two on the heat exchanger further reduced IAT temps and increased timing.
Heat Exchanger Air to Water Intercooler Cobalt Mustang | eBay
One is good for our 4.0, and 4.2, it has a fill and drain for easy servicing and just $140.00
Be sure to use distilled water, a bottle of water wetter, and a low temp thermostat and use SUPER GAS 93 octane or HIGHER and reset the ecm.
Your knock sensors will retard timing significantly if you fail to do so.
To lower IAT'S a fan or two on it is great advice,as previous test on the dyno have proved a fan or two on the heat exchanger further reduced IAT temps and increased timing.
Last edited by aode06; 02-26-2015 at 08:35 AM.
#26
02-26-2015, 08:42 AM
Several here have tried the Steig ported blower with not so good results. I had steig years ago do some welding on the exhaust ports on a set of heads for me...The port work started with the Thunderbird m90's t hen cobra lightning m112's...And then any eaton they could get their hands on
A pulley, the cooling mod to the blower from steig, and upgraded heat exchanger thermostat, are the key to power on our cars.
I dont know if they do the impeller lightening, but the impellers are lightened ,allowing you to run high psi boost or regular boost without robbing power from the engine, and creating a lot of heat from the previous heavy metal impellers. They do this on the ford eatons, don't know about the JAG though.
#27
02-26-2015, 08:57 AM
Veteran Member
(Update based on prior post)
Ive heard of the drilled rotors causing high RPM stability issues and wrecking cases. This is also something first done with m90's which have much smaller rotors and seemed to be ok on. Just don't want you to get screwed.
Important to note that although an m112 blower it isn't the same as a lightning/cobra blower. That may be why people aren't really getting the same results from porting the jaguar blowers which are more similiar in design to that of the thunderbird SC m90's. A majority of gains on this type of design has always been on the inlet side porting wise. From my understanding there just isnt much if any gain on porting the gen V blowers, perhaps a bit from yours. All of that fancy outlet porting does little regardless of what you may have been told and in some cases is detrimental. There is no real fancy porting for the jag version blowers here. Porting of earlier gen Eatons have always mocked the later Gen blower. It was never rocket science nor has any porter discovering the holy grail of Eaton porting.
It all started in 1989 with the Ford Thunderbird SC with the M90. When the next gen M90 came out porting of the earlier sc's tried to mimic that inlet albeit a different shape oval vs round. When the next gen m90 came out the porting of the m90 before would then be ported to mimic that...Many of the porters out there such as Steig started with the m90's on supercoupes. And they weren't the pioneers by a long shot. So the principles used in porting the inlet isn't magic as I said earlier. Its basically copying Eatons latest and greatest inlet design.
As far as the outlet....I cant tell you. I've seen some very very questionable porting there. From my understanding on the cobras and lightning's it allows flow over more of the IC surface. Something we don't worry about with our Jags. You can clean up the V shape but little is to be gained there. That's what wed do with the m90's of all generations. I'm also not sold on the water cooling mod.
So what I'm saying is money can be best spent elsewhere. We already have Eatons latest and greatest inlet design on the 2004 and up blower. Sure you may be able to blend it a bit better and MAYBE make a bit more efficiency but not worth the charge of Steigs admission. Perhaps on your earlier model blower you'de get a gain. I talked to a buddy of mine who has a great deal experience with Eatons and porting of such and he said don't bother with my 2004 blower. And hed love to take my money! Generally speaking porting an earlier Gen Eaton wont even get you to the point of the later Gen.
So here is what Id do based on my 15 plus years + experience with Eatons (and being an engineer)
Get a later model 2004 up Eaton. I picked one up for my 2001 XKR. Leave it alone and do not clean the rotors. That gunk is the abradable coating. I had my rotor pack rebuilt and recoated because I'm ****. It's now better than new. That isn't cheap however but if your coating looks good, you can choose to leave it be. If interested however I can lead you to who has done mine. Keep in mind when STEIG or whomever works your blower. They do not rebuild the rotor back.
Use your early model inlet and port match it a bit. Its obviously not an exact fit. I have a great suspicion although not tested that this is an area of great restriction combined with the TB. A custom inlet would be great and may be something Ill work on in the spring when I swap blowers. If you look at AVOS and his twin screw kit he sourced a 90mm TB and created an inlet that pushes it away from the blower. I want to do something like that. But for now port match stock inlet. Just for arguments sake I ran a 95mm TB and a 4" air intake on my M90....on a v6....Even a 3.5" and 85mm TB was restrictive.
Get TB ported to 83mm..Hey I still think it's a restriction but thus far only bolt on option. If I ever do that custom inlet Ill be sure to post about it.
Make a 3.5" air intake pipe. Perfect for that 83mm TB
Get a pro M 92mm MAF. Its not because the factory MAF cant handle the flow....It's because the factory MAF is highly restrictive
Of course get the pulley of your choice. I have a 10% for my xjr but am putting the non mod one on my xkr...For now
With these blowers any restriction before in inlet of the SC will effect boost and ultimately power. These aren't compressors but AIR MOVERS. I'd spend the money in this order :O)
1) 3.5" Air intake
2) 92MM Pro M
3) 83MM TB
4) Pulley
5) Meth injection...Almost forgot that
6) Later Model Blower..Or you can port yours. Without doing at least 1-3 porting would be a complete waste...IF it even does anything
Of course if you decide to do a steig port I'd dyno before and log boost then dyno after with same blower overdrive to see if you lost or gained anything. I hope this made some sort of sense. Typing on iphone in subway:O)
Ive heard of the drilled rotors causing high RPM stability issues and wrecking cases. This is also something first done with m90's which have much smaller rotors and seemed to be ok on. Just don't want you to get screwed.
Important to note that although an m112 blower it isn't the same as a lightning/cobra blower. That may be why people aren't really getting the same results from porting the jaguar blowers which are more similiar in design to that of the thunderbird SC m90's. A majority of gains on this type of design has always been on the inlet side porting wise. From my understanding there just isnt much if any gain on porting the gen V blowers, perhaps a bit from yours. All of that fancy outlet porting does little regardless of what you may have been told and in some cases is detrimental. There is no real fancy porting for the jag version blowers here. Porting of earlier gen Eatons have always mocked the later Gen blower. It was never rocket science nor has any porter discovering the holy grail of Eaton porting.
It all started in 1989 with the Ford Thunderbird SC with the M90. When the next gen M90 came out porting of the earlier sc's tried to mimic that inlet albeit a different shape oval vs round. When the next gen m90 came out the porting of the m90 before would then be ported to mimic that...Many of the porters out there such as Steig started with the m90's on supercoupes. And they weren't the pioneers by a long shot. So the principles used in porting the inlet isn't magic as I said earlier. Its basically copying Eatons latest and greatest inlet design.
As far as the outlet....I cant tell you. I've seen some very very questionable porting there. From my understanding on the cobras and lightning's it allows flow over more of the IC surface. Something we don't worry about with our Jags. You can clean up the V shape but little is to be gained there. That's what wed do with the m90's of all generations. I'm also not sold on the water cooling mod.
So what I'm saying is money can be best spent elsewhere. We already have Eatons latest and greatest inlet design on the 2004 and up blower. Sure you may be able to blend it a bit better and MAYBE make a bit more efficiency but not worth the charge of Steigs admission. Perhaps on your earlier model blower you'de get a gain. I talked to a buddy of mine who has a great deal experience with Eatons and porting of such and he said don't bother with my 2004 blower. And hed love to take my money! Generally speaking porting an earlier Gen Eaton wont even get you to the point of the later Gen.
So here is what Id do based on my 15 plus years + experience with Eatons (and being an engineer)
Get a later model 2004 up Eaton. I picked one up for my 2001 XKR. Leave it alone and do not clean the rotors. That gunk is the abradable coating. I had my rotor pack rebuilt and recoated because I'm ****. It's now better than new. That isn't cheap however but if your coating looks good, you can choose to leave it be. If interested however I can lead you to who has done mine. Keep in mind when STEIG or whomever works your blower. They do not rebuild the rotor back.
Use your early model inlet and port match it a bit. Its obviously not an exact fit. I have a great suspicion although not tested that this is an area of great restriction combined with the TB. A custom inlet would be great and may be something Ill work on in the spring when I swap blowers. If you look at AVOS and his twin screw kit he sourced a 90mm TB and created an inlet that pushes it away from the blower. I want to do something like that. But for now port match stock inlet. Just for arguments sake I ran a 95mm TB and a 4" air intake on my M90....on a v6....Even a 3.5" and 85mm TB was restrictive.
Get TB ported to 83mm..Hey I still think it's a restriction but thus far only bolt on option. If I ever do that custom inlet Ill be sure to post about it.
Make a 3.5" air intake pipe. Perfect for that 83mm TB
Get a pro M 92mm MAF. Its not because the factory MAF cant handle the flow....It's because the factory MAF is highly restrictive
Of course get the pulley of your choice. I have a 10% for my xjr but am putting the non mod one on my xkr...For now
With these blowers any restriction before in inlet of the SC will effect boost and ultimately power. These aren't compressors but AIR MOVERS. I'd spend the money in this order :O)
1) 3.5" Air intake
2) 92MM Pro M
3) 83MM TB
4) Pulley
5) Meth injection...Almost forgot that
6) Later Model Blower..Or you can port yours. Without doing at least 1-3 porting would be a complete waste...IF it even does anything
Of course if you decide to do a steig port I'd dyno before and log boost then dyno after with same blower overdrive to see if you lost or gained anything. I hope this made some sort of sense. Typing on iphone in subway:O)
Last edited by XxSlowpokexX; 02-26-2015 at 09:08 AM.
#28
02-27-2015, 11:23 AM
That's correct, again, I would not pay $800 FOR 20 HP from porting.
Here are inputs for the stock ecm for timing. Maf IAT temps,Intake Manifold IAT temps,engine coolant temperature temps.
Speaking to a local tuner, the Jaguar has a default max timing value, that will never be exceeded by using meth or anything, I believe that's 23* max, unless you have your ecm re flashed,however, however, under normal conditions, the 4.0 and 4.2 stays in the 10*-12* range with regards to those sensors input under boost and stock tuning.
But you cant stay at the max 23* because once you floor it, the ecm will eventually kick the timing down, however, to get to the max SOONER, without a tune requires relocating the IAT 2 SENSOR to the intake tube,and running a low temp thermostat and premium gas to keep the knock sensors smiling.
With that regard, who in heck tunes these ecms? That was news, I did not like to here.
Here are inputs for the stock ecm for timing. Maf IAT temps,Intake Manifold IAT temps,engine coolant temperature temps.
Speaking to a local tuner, the Jaguar has a default max timing value, that will never be exceeded by using meth or anything, I believe that's 23* max, unless you have your ecm re flashed,however, however, under normal conditions, the 4.0 and 4.2 stays in the 10*-12* range with regards to those sensors input under boost and stock tuning.
But you cant stay at the max 23* because once you floor it, the ecm will eventually kick the timing down, however, to get to the max SOONER, without a tune requires relocating the IAT 2 SENSOR to the intake tube,and running a low temp thermostat and premium gas to keep the knock sensors smiling.
With that regard, who in heck tunes these ecms? That was news, I did not like to here.
#29
03-05-2015, 06:57 PM
Veteran Member
I thought I would share my experiences so far regarding my 2001 XKR supercharger pulley upgrade. As many of you know the 4.0 and 4.2 L supercharged XKRs use a Jaguar specific Eaton M112 supercharger. AFAIK, there are three pulley change approaches to getting the supercharger to spin faster.
1) +1.5 PSI supercharger pulley upgrade, available from Mina, Eurotoys, Paramount and others
2) +3 PSI supecharger pulley upgrade available from Eurotoys, Phoenix Coachworks, and others
3) +3 to 4.5 PSI Crankshaft pulley upgrade available from Eurotoys, Phoenix Coachworks, Paramount Performance and others
Note that it is possible to use approach 1 and 3 or approach 2 and 3 in combination, but the heat generated will almost certainly require a better than stock intercooling solution.
Approach 1 is the least expensive in terms of parts and labor. Basically it requires just pulling or cutting the old pulley off, and pressing on the new one. (On an XKR, this also means draining the coolant and removing the aluminum pipes and thermostat housing that is over the top of the supercharger snout). A special tool for this can be rented or purchased. These pulleys are pressed on extremely tightly, and an ordinary 3 jaw puller will likely not work and may damage your supercharger. Gain is reportedly around 15 bhp. In my opinion, probably not worth the trouble. Also the same supercharger belt can be used.
Approach 2 is roughly the same in terms of parts (although some outfits charge more for this one), but requires significantly more labor in terms of modifying the supercharger snout. The +3 PSI pulley is about 2.6 inches in diameter, and this is just too small to fit over the supercharger snout. Once the old pulley is removed, it is necessary to grind down the snout diameter by about 4-5mm. Supposedly, the snout casting is still strong enough after this mod. Another potential disadvantage is that such a small pulley is more prone to belt slippage, but according to marketing and anectdotal sources, a steel pulley will be less prone to slippage than an aluminum one, and a Goodyear Gatorback belt is less prone to slippage than other brands (although the stock belt size still can be used). Gain is reportedly around 30 bhp.
Approach 3 is the most costly, but requires no modification to the supercharger itself. The crank pulley and damper assembly is removed using a puller, and typically sent off to have a machine shop add an outer, larger diameter pulley. (Some vendors offer a range of sizes for this outer ring, which may be user changed once the original damper is reworked). The new unit is then reinstalled. Normally a larger belt is required. Gain can be up to around 45 bhp, depending on the ring size.
In all cases, the larger the gain, the more you will need additional charge air cooling to receive maximum benefit. There are also diminishing returns, because the M112 is already being run at or near its maximum efficiency in the stock configuration.
For my car, I chose approach 2, the +3 PSI, 2.6" pulley from Phoenix Coachworks in the UK (http://www.phoenix-coachworks.co.uk/superchargers.html). They are currently selling at auction on ebay (Jaguar XKR XJR S Type Performance Supercharger pulley | eBay) for around $200. This appears to be one of the better values out there. It is a high quality, steel pulley, and comes with a nylon dummy pulley with a window cut out to help you gauge your progress when grinding the snout.
Rather than use the pulley cut off method for removal and heat up method for installation as described on the Phoenix web site, I chose to purchase a puller/installer tool from Eurotoys (Upper Supercharger Pulley Remover/Installer Tool 4.0/4.2L, Eurotoys,Ltd.), which at $110 was one of the less expensive ones.
Removal of the old pulley went flawlessly. However, the next step, grinding the snout, was tedious work. I used a belt sander, and about six 36 grit extra course belts, plus a medium grit and a fine grit for final smoothing. I found that this job would be easier if the entire supercharger is removed first. The problem with doing it on the car is limited access with the belt sander, and all the abrasive grit that gets all over your car, even with a drop cloth under the snout. It turned out that I roughed it in with the belt sander, and then did the final trimming by hand sanding about a 90 degree arc at a time on the supercharger snout. It was tedious, and I did about an hour a day over 5 evenings.
Unfortunately the nylon dummy pulley gauge , though a good idea, was just a tad too large, and when I installed the new pulley there was a very slight binding spot. I went to pull it off and had a serious 'oh s---' moment...the puller was too big for the reduced size pulley. After calming down, I fashioned an 'adapter' of sorts for the puller from some 1/8" hardened steel strips I had lying around from another tool. It worked and I got the new pulley off, then worked on grinding for another hour or so and re-installed the new pulley. I cleaned up the engine compartment with a vacuum and then with compressed air. If you do it on the car, it is imperative that you use fender protectors..the airborne grit will otherwise settle on the car and rub between your legs and the car and scratch the finish. It can be polished out, but its best to avoid in the first place as much as possible. When you are done, wash the car vigorously with a hose, to get off any grit without rubbing it in. Also, be sure to plug up any open hoses and coolant orifices with rags. I also found a pair of inexpensive calipers was invaluable for judging the correct diameter of the snout (target diameter is 54 mm).
Once the pulley was installed , I replaced my thermostat with the Eurotoys 170 degree (13 degrees cooler) version. I reinstalled the aluminum pipe /thermostat housing assembly using new seals (two required of Jaguar P/N C2C11477). I also replace the bearing on my supercharger idler pulley, because mine had excessive play and some noise. Finally, I chose to replace my supercharger belt with a Goodyear Gatorback belt (see Supercharger belt replacement - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum for Gatorback details).
Once all back together, with fresh coolant, I reset the ECU.
It has been 2 days now, and so far I am quite pleased. The 170 degree thermostat is causing no issues. It seems as if the performance continues to improve as the ECU re-adapts. These cars, though fantastic at accelerating at the higher revs, are geared such that they are a little slow getting going from a standstill. The 3 lb pulley really improves performance significantly in that regard.
I hope to make some intercooling improvements in the future (it gets awful hot here in the summer)and perhaps add a thermostatic or manual auxiliary fan switch in the not too distant future. Then I will get some dyno numbers.
1) +1.5 PSI supercharger pulley upgrade, available from Mina, Eurotoys, Paramount and others
2) +3 PSI supecharger pulley upgrade available from Eurotoys, Phoenix Coachworks, and others
3) +3 to 4.5 PSI Crankshaft pulley upgrade available from Eurotoys, Phoenix Coachworks, Paramount Performance and others
Note that it is possible to use approach 1 and 3 or approach 2 and 3 in combination, but the heat generated will almost certainly require a better than stock intercooling solution.
Approach 1 is the least expensive in terms of parts and labor. Basically it requires just pulling or cutting the old pulley off, and pressing on the new one. (On an XKR, this also means draining the coolant and removing the aluminum pipes and thermostat housing that is over the top of the supercharger snout). A special tool for this can be rented or purchased. These pulleys are pressed on extremely tightly, and an ordinary 3 jaw puller will likely not work and may damage your supercharger. Gain is reportedly around 15 bhp. In my opinion, probably not worth the trouble. Also the same supercharger belt can be used.
Approach 2 is roughly the same in terms of parts (although some outfits charge more for this one), but requires significantly more labor in terms of modifying the supercharger snout. The +3 PSI pulley is about 2.6 inches in diameter, and this is just too small to fit over the supercharger snout. Once the old pulley is removed, it is necessary to grind down the snout diameter by about 4-5mm. Supposedly, the snout casting is still strong enough after this mod. Another potential disadvantage is that such a small pulley is more prone to belt slippage, but according to marketing and anectdotal sources, a steel pulley will be less prone to slippage than an aluminum one, and a Goodyear Gatorback belt is less prone to slippage than other brands (although the stock belt size still can be used). Gain is reportedly around 30 bhp.
Approach 3 is the most costly, but requires no modification to the supercharger itself. The crank pulley and damper assembly is removed using a puller, and typically sent off to have a machine shop add an outer, larger diameter pulley. (Some vendors offer a range of sizes for this outer ring, which may be user changed once the original damper is reworked). The new unit is then reinstalled. Normally a larger belt is required. Gain can be up to around 45 bhp, depending on the ring size.
In all cases, the larger the gain, the more you will need additional charge air cooling to receive maximum benefit. There are also diminishing returns, because the M112 is already being run at or near its maximum efficiency in the stock configuration.
For my car, I chose approach 2, the +3 PSI, 2.6" pulley from Phoenix Coachworks in the UK (http://www.phoenix-coachworks.co.uk/superchargers.html). They are currently selling at auction on ebay (Jaguar XKR XJR S Type Performance Supercharger pulley | eBay) for around $200. This appears to be one of the better values out there. It is a high quality, steel pulley, and comes with a nylon dummy pulley with a window cut out to help you gauge your progress when grinding the snout.
Rather than use the pulley cut off method for removal and heat up method for installation as described on the Phoenix web site, I chose to purchase a puller/installer tool from Eurotoys (Upper Supercharger Pulley Remover/Installer Tool 4.0/4.2L, Eurotoys,Ltd.), which at $110 was one of the less expensive ones.
Removal of the old pulley went flawlessly. However, the next step, grinding the snout, was tedious work. I used a belt sander, and about six 36 grit extra course belts, plus a medium grit and a fine grit for final smoothing. I found that this job would be easier if the entire supercharger is removed first. The problem with doing it on the car is limited access with the belt sander, and all the abrasive grit that gets all over your car, even with a drop cloth under the snout. It turned out that I roughed it in with the belt sander, and then did the final trimming by hand sanding about a 90 degree arc at a time on the supercharger snout. It was tedious, and I did about an hour a day over 5 evenings.
Unfortunately the nylon dummy pulley gauge , though a good idea, was just a tad too large, and when I installed the new pulley there was a very slight binding spot. I went to pull it off and had a serious 'oh s---' moment...the puller was too big for the reduced size pulley. After calming down, I fashioned an 'adapter' of sorts for the puller from some 1/8" hardened steel strips I had lying around from another tool. It worked and I got the new pulley off, then worked on grinding for another hour or so and re-installed the new pulley. I cleaned up the engine compartment with a vacuum and then with compressed air. If you do it on the car, it is imperative that you use fender protectors..the airborne grit will otherwise settle on the car and rub between your legs and the car and scratch the finish. It can be polished out, but its best to avoid in the first place as much as possible. When you are done, wash the car vigorously with a hose, to get off any grit without rubbing it in. Also, be sure to plug up any open hoses and coolant orifices with rags. I also found a pair of inexpensive calipers was invaluable for judging the correct diameter of the snout (target diameter is 54 mm).
Once the pulley was installed , I replaced my thermostat with the Eurotoys 170 degree (13 degrees cooler) version. I reinstalled the aluminum pipe /thermostat housing assembly using new seals (two required of Jaguar P/N C2C11477). I also replace the bearing on my supercharger idler pulley, because mine had excessive play and some noise. Finally, I chose to replace my supercharger belt with a Goodyear Gatorback belt (see Supercharger belt replacement - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum for Gatorback details).
Once all back together, with fresh coolant, I reset the ECU.
It has been 2 days now, and so far I am quite pleased. The 170 degree thermostat is causing no issues. It seems as if the performance continues to improve as the ECU re-adapts. These cars, though fantastic at accelerating at the higher revs, are geared such that they are a little slow getting going from a standstill. The 3 lb pulley really improves performance significantly in that regard.
I hope to make some intercooling improvements in the future (it gets awful hot here in the summer)and perhaps add a thermostatic or manual auxiliary fan switch in the not too distant future. Then I will get some dyno numbers.
http://www.powerhouseautomotive.co.u...er-pulleys.php
The owner Lawson is a pleasure to deal with and has great knowledge about what is involved. The 1.5lb is a straight fit. But as i'm doing a remap he said i should go for the 2.5 10%. There is a bit more work involved in fitting, but worth it he says. He told me that people who have fitted the 2.5 have come back and said they can't believe the difference. He said he never has had any complaints from buyers of heating issues with the pulley change.
Jaguar XKR 4.2 Supercharger 10% 2.5lb Upper Pulley Upgrade 2006 2007 2008 X150 | eBay
The guy that's doing the pulley is doing the remap and is also doing my transmission service. He lives in Dublin and services and fixes on top makes such as ferraris ,Porsches , lambos, astons and of course jags. He had contact with powerhouse uk and discussed all the issues and has no problem to do fitting. Great reviews on his work. He also was our mobile mechanic on the cannonball trip we did round Ireland. He had to put a clutch in a Ferrari outside a hotel on one night. was amazing to watch.
#30
10-07-2017, 06:40 AM
#31
09-19-2019, 07:36 AM
Both pulley upgraded, ECU won't learn, car doesn't drive well
Good afternoon
Any comments or ideas on such a case would be highly appreciated:
I made both pulley upgrade on 2002 4.0 XKR, upper & lower, from Powerhouse. By doing that, I supposed that ECU will learn. Now, ECU still didn't adopt/learn for few months, after all possible resets etc. After 2500 rpms engine doesn't go easily to any higher rpms, it seems like ECU doesn't allow to. I just wandering, what could be wrong. If the ECU learns, there is definitely not this case. And if it's not, so how you guys succeeded with these upgrades? Before these pulleys car drove as it should, now it's pure sadness.
Probably the solution would be to install manual gearbox, in order to install racing ECU, but it's another 5-7Ks and the time.. But I'm so curious, what is wrong in that case???
Any comments or ideas on such a case would be highly appreciated:
I made both pulley upgrade on 2002 4.0 XKR, upper & lower, from Powerhouse. By doing that, I supposed that ECU will learn. Now, ECU still didn't adopt/learn for few months, after all possible resets etc. After 2500 rpms engine doesn't go easily to any higher rpms, it seems like ECU doesn't allow to. I just wandering, what could be wrong. If the ECU learns, there is definitely not this case. And if it's not, so how you guys succeeded with these upgrades? Before these pulleys car drove as it should, now it's pure sadness.
Probably the solution would be to install manual gearbox, in order to install racing ECU, but it's another 5-7Ks and the time.. But I'm so curious, what is wrong in that case???
Last edited by vg99999; 09-19-2019 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Tech details
#32
09-19-2019, 08:23 PM
Veteran Member
v99999,
This Thread started back in 2010....I don't know how it is that "out of the Blue" these old Threads Pop-up......But I will give you some knowledge about your ECU.
The 4 Liter ECU was basically unprogrammable but one Company, Eurotek Designs in NY figured it out and at the time had a Kit of Pulleys, Belts and Idlers that they sold along with re-programing the 4 Liter ECU....When the 4.2 Engine came out it had a programable ECU and most of the Parts Companies started pushing the Pulley Kit.
Obviously, you have a 4 Liter ECU and since Eurotek's re-programmer is broken, you are out of luck with that...The 4 liter ECU business doesn't exist anymore.....That I know of anyway!....You might try adding a Water/Methanol system to give it a little more Octane....Not sure really what to do with it....Call your Guys at Powerhouse and pick their brains...The may have an answer by now....
Billy Clyde
This Thread started back in 2010....I don't know how it is that "out of the Blue" these old Threads Pop-up......But I will give you some knowledge about your ECU.
The 4 Liter ECU was basically unprogrammable but one Company, Eurotek Designs in NY figured it out and at the time had a Kit of Pulleys, Belts and Idlers that they sold along with re-programing the 4 Liter ECU....When the 4.2 Engine came out it had a programable ECU and most of the Parts Companies started pushing the Pulley Kit.
Obviously, you have a 4 Liter ECU and since Eurotek's re-programmer is broken, you are out of luck with that...The 4 liter ECU business doesn't exist anymore.....That I know of anyway!....You might try adding a Water/Methanol system to give it a little more Octane....Not sure really what to do with it....Call your Guys at Powerhouse and pick their brains...The may have an answer by now....
Billy Clyde
Last edited by bcprice36; 09-19-2019 at 08:26 PM.
#33
09-19-2019, 10:06 PM
v99999,
This Thread started back in 2010....I don't know how it is that "out of the Blue" these old Threads Pop-up......But I will give you some knowledge about your ECU.
The 4 Liter ECU was basically unprogrammable but one Company, Eurotek Designs in NY figured it out and at the time had a Kit of Pulleys, Belts and Idlers that they sold along with re-programing the 4 Liter ECU....When the 4.2 Engine came out it had a programable ECU and most of the Parts Companies started pushing the Pulley Kit.
Obviously, you have a 4 Liter ECU and since Eurotek's re-programmer is broken, you are out of luck with that...The 4 liter ECU business doesn't exist anymore.....That I know of anyway!....You might try adding a Water/Methanol system to give it a little more Octane....Not sure really what to do with it....Call your Guys at Powerhouse and pick their brains...The may have an answer by now....
Billy Clyde
This Thread started back in 2010....I don't know how it is that "out of the Blue" these old Threads Pop-up......But I will give you some knowledge about your ECU.
The 4 Liter ECU was basically unprogrammable but one Company, Eurotek Designs in NY figured it out and at the time had a Kit of Pulleys, Belts and Idlers that they sold along with re-programing the 4 Liter ECU....When the 4.2 Engine came out it had a programable ECU and most of the Parts Companies started pushing the Pulley Kit.
Obviously, you have a 4 Liter ECU and since Eurotek's re-programmer is broken, you are out of luck with that...The 4 liter ECU business doesn't exist anymore.....That I know of anyway!....You might try adding a Water/Methanol system to give it a little more Octane....Not sure really what to do with it....Call your Guys at Powerhouse and pick their brains...The may have an answer by now....
Billy Clyde
Thank you very much, Billy
Sure, I saw the date, 2010) also wandered how it's possible
Yes, it's that damn 4.0 ECU, and yes, Eurotek refused with remap
Powerhouse advised to spend about GBP3000+installation for BadCat add-on computer, which might help; from that point of view conversion to manual gearbox along with racing ECU looks better
Thank you again, I see there are no chances to expect something more from that ECU
🙏
#34
09-20-2019, 12:23 AM
I have never touched my upper pulley but did upgrade crank pulley and did nothing at all to ECU.
The upgrade was certainly noticeable and have had no problems at all. Maybe it's not entirely an ECU problem you are having.
Did you do anything to improve your intercooler, l believe the stock unit is marginal with both pullies upgraded.
The upgrade was certainly noticeable and have had no problems at all. Maybe it's not entirely an ECU problem you are having.
Did you do anything to improve your intercooler, l believe the stock unit is marginal with both pullies upgraded.
Last edited by baxtor; 09-20-2019 at 12:25 AM.
#36
09-20-2019, 12:45 AM
I have never touched my upper pulley but did upgrade crank pulley and did nothing at all to ECU.
The upgrade was certainly noticeable and have had no problems at all. Maybe it's not entirely an ECU problem you are having.
Did you do anything to improve your intercooler, l believe the stock unit is marginal with both pullies upgraded.
The upgrade was certainly noticeable and have had no problems at all. Maybe it's not entirely an ECU problem you are having.
Did you do anything to improve your intercooler, l believe the stock unit is marginal with both pullies upgraded.
Really glad to hear that it works on your car!
That's interesting, cooling system is upgraded to its maximum, and before pulleys everything been fine. Have no idea what could be else)
#37
09-20-2019, 12:56 AM
What we have done to the engine :
- metal tensioners
- both pulleys
- manual fuel pressure adjuster (to increase fuel pressure to compensate increased air flow, as advised by Powerhouse), upgraded fuel pump
- Mina intake +KN
- upgraded cooling system
- free flow exhaust
No idea what to check ...
#38
09-20-2019, 03:57 AM
Thank you Avos. Do you mean after both pulleys installation car should drive as it should, without anything to do with ECU?
What we have done to the engine :
- metal tensioners
- both pulleys
- manual fuel pressure adjuster (to increase fuel pressure to compensate increased air flow, as advised by Powerhouse), upgraded fuel pump
- Mina intake +KN
- upgraded cooling system
- free flow exhaust
No idea what to check ...
What we have done to the engine :
- metal tensioners
- both pulleys
- manual fuel pressure adjuster (to increase fuel pressure to compensate increased air flow, as advised by Powerhouse), upgraded fuel pump
- Mina intake +KN
- upgraded cooling system
- free flow exhaust
No idea what to check ...
You mention fuel "pump" not pumps. I am not sure when second pump kicks in but maybe it's not doing it's job as it should.
#39
09-20-2019, 07:34 AM
Veteran Member
Indeed, everything related to a p[roper combustion (fuel, air, spark etc etc ), could even be a coil not working properly, especially as you raised the pressure.
You may want to install the original maf unit back, just to ensure its not related to the mina intake, as the MAF is tuned to the original unit it fits in, and iirc mina puts the maf unit in a larger pipe?
Overall no easy answer, for any engine that you tune (especially heavy tunes like you do), you need to be sure all is working as it should!
You may want to install the original maf unit back, just to ensure its not related to the mina intake, as the MAF is tuned to the original unit it fits in, and iirc mina puts the maf unit in a larger pipe?
Overall no easy answer, for any engine that you tune (especially heavy tunes like you do), you need to be sure all is working as it should!
