What is it which makes the X100 so unreliable?
#121
02-17-2018, 07:45 PM
Veteran Member
Just came across a very interesting review/buyer's guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JL1JEPwkSI
Posting it here as it may be unknown to people in the UK and U.S., since it's from a Dutch site. But it has English subtitles.
He gives a very long list of issues and things to check. Most of the stuff was covered in the thread. But there are a few things which I'm hearing for the first time. From more major things like suspension problems to smaller things such as the key battery issue.
He also mentions some body panels are plastic and others are aluminium? I was not aware there were aluminium panels. Maybe the subtitles mistranslated it. Although somebody also mentioned aluminium in the thread. What parts are aluminium, if any? And I'm thinking plastic are only the front and rear bumpers?
Posting it here as it may be unknown to people in the UK and U.S., since it's from a Dutch site. But it has English subtitles.
He gives a very long list of issues and things to check. Most of the stuff was covered in the thread. But there are a few things which I'm hearing for the first time. From more major things like suspension problems to smaller things such as the key battery issue.
He also mentions some body panels are plastic and others are aluminium? I was not aware there were aluminium panels. Maybe the subtitles mistranslated it. Although somebody also mentioned aluminium in the thread. What parts are aluminium, if any? And I'm thinking plastic are only the front and rear bumpers?
The X100s are steel bodied. The only body panels that are plastic are the bumper covers, both front and rear. These cars are built tough with thick gauge panels, thick bumper covers, and even glass headlights housings.
#122
02-17-2018, 09:23 PM
#123
02-17-2018, 10:08 PM
Jaguar Arbitrage
The biggest site for car sales in Europe is autoscout.
I'm not sure buying one in the U.S. makes sense. After shipping and import taxes you can probably just buy a local one.
Besides U.S. cars probably have different specs which won't match European law (?). Also many European cars are de-tuned when they are sent to the U.S. Or they are heavier because of extra safety stuff the U.S. requires. I'm not aware of the changes in specs. So unless I could have them for much cheaper even after shipping and import taxes, I will stick to an European car.
I'm not sure buying one in the U.S. makes sense. After shipping and import taxes you can probably just buy a local one.
Besides U.S. cars probably have different specs which won't match European law (?). Also many European cars are de-tuned when they are sent to the U.S. Or they are heavier because of extra safety stuff the U.S. requires. I'm not aware of the changes in specs. So unless I could have them for much cheaper even after shipping and import taxes, I will stick to an European car.
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/j...877?cldtidx=16
The various technical sites i checked did not report any difference in the rated HP power, torque or weights for the US cars as against the rest of the world. My understanding is that all of the cars were electronically limited to 155 mph and all have same 0-60 specs etc. Same brake/wheel/tyre/lighting options in the catalog. Pictures of the German XKRs on AutoScout look comparable to the US cars other than the color of side markers (white v. amber). Same bumpers and airbag set up. You can be sure that the US consumer bar would be all over Jaguar USA if the US cars were detuned from the published performance specs or were overweight. US cars probably have different DVDs in the Nav systems than EU cars although mine will provide directions in German or French if requested. Someone may have more detailed list of differences, if any.
Last edited by JRabbit; 02-17-2018 at 10:16 PM. Reason: More infor
#124
02-17-2018, 11:16 PM
my remarks were mainly intended to be in reference to the mechanical aspects of the car, not the cosmetics. Even so, I've purchased several Shelby's that had well over 200,00 documented miles. The interiors were in very good shape, and the paint was original. As you say, it ALL depends how the car has been cared for.
mechanically speaking, if cars from the 1960's with 200,000+ miles, mainly muscle types, can be in very good condition after 50+ years, without the benefits of modern synthetic oils for most of those years, then I don't see why a modern car, which has so many more advantages, cannot also be in fine condition with 200,000+ miles on the clock. The engine certainly won't be worn out at that stage . With proper attention paid to quality lubricants there no reason why modern engines can't reach 400,000+ miles without needing an overhaul.
Z
The main reason I look for lower mileage and very well kept examples from first or second owners is because if I am going to travel great distances out of my immediate area to look at and purchase a potential vehicle I want to do everything I can to mitigate the possibility of buying a poor example. Dealers and professional car flippers are experts at making a poor example look like a real gem. They know what to say and how to present their vehicle so as to make it appear to be everything you are wanting to buy.
If I contact a seller and I am told they have had a vehicle for a short time I seldom look further at that vehicle because more often then not you are dealing with a flipper and may have just done extensive body work etc. on the vehicle to hide damages etc. I prefer to deal with the original owner if possible because if they say the vehicle has never been in a accident they know they can be held liable if they misrepresent things. Very easy for a dealer or non original owner to say " I see no signs of a accident repair " because they know they cannot be held liable for something they can say they had any direct knowledge of.
It has been my experience that vehicles with higher miles like 150K + have wear in areas that I just am not willing to live with. There are exceptions of course but when you are having to make decisions so often at a great distance it is important to be extra careful as you may not see certain problems or issues until you are home.
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Johnken (02-18-2018)
#125
02-18-2018, 12:59 AM
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Being a long distance buyer does have its disadvantages. Many sellers think that once you have travelled 100's of miles to look at their car, that you won't want to go home empty handed. I've surprised several sellers by telling them "no thanks" and walking away from their highly misrepresented car. For me it's all part of the chase.
Of course, you can pay to have a car inspected, which I have also done on occasion. Often forum members have looked at cars in their area for me.. but ones own eyes are the best tools, imadgine the legal fees of suing a professional car inspector because they missed an expensive flaw. Ugh !
despite the seemingly drawbacks of buying a high mileage car, from my experience in offer 50 years of buying and selling cars, I'd rather have a car that's already been tested, and repaired if necessary, than the seldom driven low mileage garage queen. Every time I've bought a car that's been a low mileage classic it's taken me 1 to 2 years to get it to be reliable enough to drive anywhere worry free.
Low milage is not an indicaot of quality, or reliability, if I had bought my current XKR, at 50,000 miles instead of 116,000 miles, I'd be forking over another $10,000 in repairs as a result of my fixation on low milage.. No thanks..
Z
Of course, you can pay to have a car inspected, which I have also done on occasion. Often forum members have looked at cars in their area for me.. but ones own eyes are the best tools, imadgine the legal fees of suing a professional car inspector because they missed an expensive flaw. Ugh !
despite the seemingly drawbacks of buying a high mileage car, from my experience in offer 50 years of buying and selling cars, I'd rather have a car that's already been tested, and repaired if necessary, than the seldom driven low mileage garage queen. Every time I've bought a car that's been a low mileage classic it's taken me 1 to 2 years to get it to be reliable enough to drive anywhere worry free.
Low milage is not an indicaot of quality, or reliability, if I had bought my current XKR, at 50,000 miles instead of 116,000 miles, I'd be forking over another $10,000 in repairs as a result of my fixation on low milage.. No thanks..
Z
Last edited by zray; 02-18-2018 at 01:21 AM.
#126
02-18-2018, 03:17 AM
Senior Member
1) Deal with the identified preventative issues ASAP (ie Tensioners on a 4.0) (My ZF5 gearbox on a 4.0 was refurbished which solves the inherrant weekness)
2) Weekley/ Monthly: The usual fluid and tyre pressure and a wash (like every car should)
3) Annual Service: 1 yr or 10,000 miles
4) Deal with any issue as it arrises - the quicker its addressed the better and usually cheaper.
5) XKR and 4.2 gearboxes are fine, just do the fluid changes on it.
6) Be very picky on the car you buy, one that's been looked after as above is worth a lot more in the long run.
7) In the UK "UNDERSEAL IT EVERY YEAR" if your using in in the slt season!
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Jeagar (02-18-2018)
#127
02-18-2018, 05:28 PM
Sorry about confusing you there. I was referencing the X150 XKs when I mentioned the aluminum bodied cars.
The X100s are steel bodied. The only body panels that are plastic are the bumper covers, both front and rear. These cars are built tough with thick gauge panels, thick bumper covers, and even glass headlights housings.
By the way, I would think the rear quarters are integrated into the body as most monocoques?
#128
02-18-2018, 05:34 PM
I've been visiting this thread on-and-off.
This brings me to something I've been meaning to mention. More specifically, I've meant to ask if the OP was an avid DIYer. If the question came up before, I must've missed it.
To at least some degree, but I think a large degree, personally, the opinion of a car's reliability, and overall ownership experience, will be higher among DIYers.
A non-DIYer is faced with different and often greater challenges than a DIYer. There's the much higher out-of-pocket expense, inconvenience of waiting for shop scheduling, finding a trustworthy shop, and so forth.
A DIYer faces less expense, does repairs on his own schedule, and....as often as not....actually enjoys repairing and servicing the car. Doing so it part of the enjoyment; there's lots of personal satisfaction involved. Of course everyone has their limits but a DIYer will often shrug off as "no big deal" something that a non-DIYer finds to be very expensive, inconvenient, and aggravating.
Cheers
DD
This brings me to something I've been meaning to mention. More specifically, I've meant to ask if the OP was an avid DIYer. If the question came up before, I must've missed it.
To at least some degree, but I think a large degree, personally, the opinion of a car's reliability, and overall ownership experience, will be higher among DIYers.
A non-DIYer is faced with different and often greater challenges than a DIYer. There's the much higher out-of-pocket expense, inconvenience of waiting for shop scheduling, finding a trustworthy shop, and so forth.
A DIYer faces less expense, does repairs on his own schedule, and....as often as not....actually enjoys repairing and servicing the car. Doing so it part of the enjoyment; there's lots of personal satisfaction involved. Of course everyone has their limits but a DIYer will often shrug off as "no big deal" something that a non-DIYer finds to be very expensive, inconvenient, and aggravating.
Cheers
DD
As for myself, not a very advanced DIYer. I have done my own service such as changing spark plugs, my own engine oil, changing brake pads, done my own compression tests, changed a cracked engine head once, repaired my front bumper's spoiler and other smaller things. But have never for example dropped an engine or gearbox let alone rebuilt one.
#129
02-18-2018, 05:35 PM
Jeager the suspension components are not bad to replace as DIY. The bushings and upper shock mounts are rubber and deteriorate over time. I've replaced my front upper shock mounts, shocks, springs, upper ball joints and all front bushings with ease- forum has all the steps necessary
#130
02-18-2018, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the tip. I checked AutoScout--Germany. Asking prices ranged from 9,000 EU for several high mile XKR coupes (2001-2006) to high of 15,000 EU for a RHD 4.2 litre xkr coupe with 128000 km. The range of asking prices on AutoScout Germany seems comparable to the US market. It would appear that there is not much of an opportunity for cross-border arbitrage in the used XK8/XKR market. Erata--saw a couple of ultra low mileage X100 XKRs with 30-40k EU asking price. They were reported to have 28,000 KMs. One was a Silverstone Edition. I have to think that these are outliers.
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/j...877?cldtidx=16
The various technical sites i checked did not report any difference in the rated HP power, torque or weights for the US cars as against the rest of the world. My understanding is that all of the cars were electronically limited to 155 mph and all have same 0-60 specs etc. Same brake/wheel/tyre/lighting options in the catalog. Pictures of the German XKRs on AutoScout look comparable to the US cars other than the color of side markers (white v. amber). Same bumpers and airbag set up. You can be sure that the US consumer bar would be all over Jaguar USA if the US cars were detuned from the published performance specs or were overweight. US cars probably have different DVDs in the Nav systems than EU cars although mine will provide directions in German or French if requested. Someone may have more detailed list of differences, if any.
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/j...877?cldtidx=16
The various technical sites i checked did not report any difference in the rated HP power, torque or weights for the US cars as against the rest of the world. My understanding is that all of the cars were electronically limited to 155 mph and all have same 0-60 specs etc. Same brake/wheel/tyre/lighting options in the catalog. Pictures of the German XKRs on AutoScout look comparable to the US cars other than the color of side markers (white v. amber). Same bumpers and airbag set up. You can be sure that the US consumer bar would be all over Jaguar USA if the US cars were detuned from the published performance specs or were overweight. US cars probably have different DVDs in the Nav systems than EU cars although mine will provide directions in German or French if requested. Someone may have more detailed list of differences, if any.
I'm not seeing any 2001 and newer XKRs priced at 9000. Actually no XKR of any year for that price. High mileage XKRs start over 15000 for 4.0 cars. 4.2 XKRs there is one priced at around 19000 with almost 160K on the clock and then the next one is priced at 35000. There are basically four 4.2 cars listed at the moment. 2 of them convertible and one RHD.
4.2 XK8s also start at 19000. Older 4.0 XK8 with higher mileage can be had for 9000 and over.
#131
02-18-2018, 05:59 PM
This topic of higher mileage vehicles and overall wear really has new relevance in today's age of internet buying due to the distances that many of us are now dealing with when looking at potential purchases. Photos can tell a lot but also hide a lot.
The main reason I look for lower mileage and very well kept examples from first or second owners is because if I am going to travel great distances out of my immediate area to look at and purchase a potential vehicle I want to do everything I can to mitigate the possibility of buying a poor example. Dealers and professional car flippers are experts at making a poor example look like a real gem. They know what to say and how to present their vehicle so as to make it appear to be everything you are wanting to buy.
If I contact a seller and I am told they have had a vehicle for a short time I seldom look further at that vehicle because more often then not you are dealing with a flipper and may have just done extensive body work etc. on the vehicle to hide damages etc. I prefer to deal with the original owner if possible because if they say the vehicle has never been in a accident they know they can be held liable if they misrepresent things. Very easy for a dealer or non original owner to say " I see no signs of a accident repair " because they know they cannot be held liable for something they can say they had any direct knowledge of.
It has been my experience that vehicles with higher miles like 150K + have wear in areas that I just am not willing to live with. There are exceptions of course but when you are having to make decisions so often at a great distance it is important to be extra careful as you may not see certain problems or issues until you are home.
The main reason I look for lower mileage and very well kept examples from first or second owners is because if I am going to travel great distances out of my immediate area to look at and purchase a potential vehicle I want to do everything I can to mitigate the possibility of buying a poor example. Dealers and professional car flippers are experts at making a poor example look like a real gem. They know what to say and how to present their vehicle so as to make it appear to be everything you are wanting to buy.
If I contact a seller and I am told they have had a vehicle for a short time I seldom look further at that vehicle because more often then not you are dealing with a flipper and may have just done extensive body work etc. on the vehicle to hide damages etc. I prefer to deal with the original owner if possible because if they say the vehicle has never been in a accident they know they can be held liable if they misrepresent things. Very easy for a dealer or non original owner to say " I see no signs of a accident repair " because they know they cannot be held liable for something they can say they had any direct knowledge of.
It has been my experience that vehicles with higher miles like 150K + have wear in areas that I just am not willing to live with. There are exceptions of course but when you are having to make decisions so often at a great distance it is important to be extra careful as you may not see certain problems or issues until you are home.
I took a look at the XK8 I mentioned before. 1998 with around 120k on the clock priced at 12000 at a local dealer. It looked ok enough. Paint is not perfect, interior shows signs of wear. It seems to be lowered as I could barely stick my finger between the rear wheel arch and tyre.
I spoke to the dealer and he became very defensive and aggressive when I asked if the plastic tensioners had been replaced. I kept my cool and after a few other questions he basically told me if it was a perfect car he would be asking the double, which is the asking price today and gave me some BS sales pitch of how the car will be a classic soon etc. I asked for a test drive and he said it can be arranged but to call him a day or so before. In other words, I think this car is trouble. The thing is, for the price and the overall look one might drive from far away to see it. Just to get disappointed once he actually sees it and talks to the seller.
At least lower mileage cars have a better chance to be in good condition and seem less risky to travel for. If the car belongs to a Jaguar fan he might have replaced the tensioners, water pump etc even before they broke, since he would know they are a weak point.
#132
02-18-2018, 07:48 PM
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for bushings, it seems to be a 50/50 split between folks staying with OEM or going with poly. For the upper mounts, I have seen the light and will be changing to poly
When I first replaced my upper shock mounts, I went with the OEM bushings and OEM upper mounts which have a hard foam insert between 2 metal discs, but after 2 years of Charleston roads, I had to replace some of the bushings so I went with poly. Last fall, I noticed the Upper mounts were starting to deteriorate again so I went with poly upper shock mounts from Welsh and got the poly bushings for the rear
I haven't installed the rear bushings yet but they are on my list for this spring along with new shocks, isolators and lowering springs
Failing front shock mounts - will drop ride height about an inch and you will see the foam crumbling around the top of the shock
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Jeagar (02-19-2018)
#133
02-19-2018, 09:35 AM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Jaguar...72.m2749.l2649
z
#134
02-19-2018, 10:49 AM
for bushings, it seems to be a 50/50 split between folks staying with OEM or going with poly. For the upper mounts, I have seen the light and will be changing to poly
When I first replaced my upper shock mounts, I went with the OEM bushings and OEM upper mounts which have a hard foam insert between 2 metal discs, but after 2 years of Charleston roads, I had to replace some of the bushings so I went with poly. Last fall, I noticed the Upper mounts were starting to deteriorate again so I went with poly upper shock mounts from Welsh and got the poly bushings for the rear
I haven't installed the rear bushings yet but they are on my list for this spring along with new shocks, isolators and lowering springs
Failing front shock mounts - will drop ride height about an inch and you will see the foam crumbling around the top of the shock
When I first replaced my upper shock mounts, I went with the OEM bushings and OEM upper mounts which have a hard foam insert between 2 metal discs, but after 2 years of Charleston roads, I had to replace some of the bushings so I went with poly. Last fall, I noticed the Upper mounts were starting to deteriorate again so I went with poly upper shock mounts from Welsh and got the poly bushings for the rear
I haven't installed the rear bushings yet but they are on my list for this spring along with new shocks, isolators and lowering springs
Failing front shock mounts - will drop ride height about an inch and you will see the foam crumbling around the top of the shock
#135
02-19-2018, 10:51 AM
My 2002 XKR was listed on eBay in early January for $8,000 buy it now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Jaguar...72.m2749.l2649
z
There is only one place where cars are cheaper than in the UK and that is the U.S.
Wish X100s were that dirty cheap here. $8000 is just over 6000 Euros. That would be a great price for a good car for sure.
#136
02-19-2018, 11:33 AM
Senior Member
The've all said it here. Jaguars and particularly the X100 is a beautiful and complicated machine and as such it requires forsight type maintenance, changing the oil and filters before it's due, replacing the pads, before they score the rotors, etc., is the way to prolong life in these cars. I've had them all from my first v8 daimler to the x100 4.2.
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#137
02-20-2018, 02:29 AM
Senior Member
'the X100 is a beautiful and complicated machine and as such it requires forsight type maintenance, changing the oil and filters before it's due, replacing the pads, before they score the rotors, etc'
no different to any other car really?
I think that most of you have missed real point here. we are talking about, in some cases, cars that are over 20 years old. Would you really expect not to have any issues? the real problem here is that its an expensive car from a luxury manufacturer and as such, servicing and spares are really expensive. so you get some footballer buying the car from new, it gets pampered, no expense spared, then it gets traded in. With each change of owner you get progressively owners who really cant afford to look after them. Services get missed, items that need replacement will get left if the car actually runs. Then you have the compounded effect that the cars are quite poor on fuel efficiency, so they dont get run enough. That leads to issues with electronics, dampness affecting electrical systems and flat battery issues. Really, there are no real surprises in any issues that arise with these cars that have been posted on this forum. if you dont believe me then take a look on a Mercedes or BMW forum on cars that are of this age and they tell a similar tale. if you want reliability then get a new or nearly new car, but they will be exactly the same in 20 years time, if they even make that age.
no different to any other car really?
I think that most of you have missed real point here. we are talking about, in some cases, cars that are over 20 years old. Would you really expect not to have any issues? the real problem here is that its an expensive car from a luxury manufacturer and as such, servicing and spares are really expensive. so you get some footballer buying the car from new, it gets pampered, no expense spared, then it gets traded in. With each change of owner you get progressively owners who really cant afford to look after them. Services get missed, items that need replacement will get left if the car actually runs. Then you have the compounded effect that the cars are quite poor on fuel efficiency, so they dont get run enough. That leads to issues with electronics, dampness affecting electrical systems and flat battery issues. Really, there are no real surprises in any issues that arise with these cars that have been posted on this forum. if you dont believe me then take a look on a Mercedes or BMW forum on cars that are of this age and they tell a similar tale. if you want reliability then get a new or nearly new car, but they will be exactly the same in 20 years time, if they even make that age.
#138
02-20-2018, 04:26 AM
the real problem here is that its an expensive car from a luxury manufacturer and as such, servicing and spares are really expensive. so you get some footballer buying the car from new, it gets pampered, no expense spared, then it gets traded in. With each change of owner you get progressively owners who really cant afford to look after them. Services get missed, items that need replacement will get left if the car actually runs. ?
Then you have the compounded effect that the cars are quite poor on fuel efficiency, so they dont get run enough. That leads to issues with electronics, dampness affecting electrical systems and flat battery issues. Really, there are no real surprises in any issues that arise with these cars that have been posted on this forum. if you dont believe me then take a look on a Mercedes or BMW forum on cars that are of this age and they tell a similar tale. if you want reliability then get a new or nearly new car, but they will be exactly the same in 20 years time, if they even make that age.
And as pointed out in the thread, the problems with the X100 are not only related to age. It's mainly related to bad engineering decisions which compromised the car. Had those stupid decision not been made the car would be much more reliable and most likely not have the reputation. I think blaming it on age alone is a cop-out.
Having said all that, when I started this thread I was interested in buying a X100. Now I have pretty much decided I want one and will be looking for the right car. Either a XK8 or XKR. Not being very strict about that. It just needs to be the right car and for the right price. But I'm buying one fully aware of the headaches and I'm expecting the worst. If it turns out not to be a nightmare I will be pleasantly surprised and happy. I really like the way it looks and they way it drives. It has a real sense of occasion both from the outside and form driving it. I truly love it. Friends are already calling me crazy and throwing bankruptcy jokes around. But I'm in love with the car. I hope I will survive.
#139
02-20-2018, 08:16 AM
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How do we define "reliable", anyway? 
Hate to get too far into the weeds but since we're already 130-140 postings into the discussion.....
I've owned several Jags, been driving 'em for 20+ years. Each one has been utterly reliable. That is, I've never been left by the side of the road. I've found that I can rely upon them to transport me to and fro. That obviously isn't the same as 'trouble-free'. I've never owned a car that was trouble-free. The repair histories on my two Hondas, for example, if placed side by side to the histories of my various Jags, have a lot in common. Head gaskets, assorted electrical problems, wheel bearings, calipers, radiator replacement, suspension bushings, and so forth.
Lots of people report that their xxx-car has been trouble free and boast that they 'never have to make repairs'. In my experience, that's almost always a case of being unaware that problems exist or simply not caring to have them repaired. Every used car I've ever bought needed a variety of repairs. Lots of people just don't notice or care if a wheel bearing is noisy, if various electrical gizmos have failed, if the suspension is clunking, etc. The car soldiers on, utterly "reliable".
People, including me, are often fussier about a special car like a Jag. They usually want everything to be 'just so'.....which inevitably means more entries into the repair logbook. My Honda needs several repairs at the moment...but I really don't care too much. It's just an appliance. If my Jag needs something, it gets done...pronto.
Cheers
DD
Hate to get too far into the weeds but since we're already 130-140 postings into the discussion.....
I've owned several Jags, been driving 'em for 20+ years. Each one has been utterly reliable. That is, I've never been left by the side of the road. I've found that I can rely upon them to transport me to and fro. That obviously isn't the same as 'trouble-free'. I've never owned a car that was trouble-free. The repair histories on my two Hondas, for example, if placed side by side to the histories of my various Jags, have a lot in common. Head gaskets, assorted electrical problems, wheel bearings, calipers, radiator replacement, suspension bushings, and so forth.
Lots of people report that their xxx-car has been trouble free and boast that they 'never have to make repairs'. In my experience, that's almost always a case of being unaware that problems exist or simply not caring to have them repaired. Every used car I've ever bought needed a variety of repairs. Lots of people just don't notice or care if a wheel bearing is noisy, if various electrical gizmos have failed, if the suspension is clunking, etc. The car soldiers on, utterly "reliable".
People, including me, are often fussier about a special car like a Jag. They usually want everything to be 'just so'.....which inevitably means more entries into the repair logbook. My Honda needs several repairs at the moment...but I really don't care too much. It's just an appliance. If my Jag needs something, it gets done...pronto.
Cheers
DD
Last edited by Doug; 02-20-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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#140
02-20-2018, 08:21 AM
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