I'm out driving my lovely Pacific Blue '05 XKR whne the engine light came on. I was on my way to pick up my new tags for my "My XKR" Wisconsin vanity license plate. Knowing they will not give you the US EPA emission test with an engine light on, I went to field's Jaguar, Volvo and Land rover in Waukesha to have them fix it, and they said, "You have 150 psi or better on your 4.2 S motor except for cylinder #2- it is only 100 psi. We have done our diagnostics, talked to Jaguar, and they say you must have a new engine in a crate shiipped here for our install, as they provide no engine parts to dealers, insisting on controlling those to make the repairs themselves. They then sell the rebilt engines on the aftermarket.

Since I have the 'bumper to bumper warranty, I will only have to pay the $500 USD deductible. What should I buy whilst they are doing that and have the negine out? A new water pump, or new bearings for the supercharger, or a new serpentine belt, or what? New coils? I just don't know what is smart and I'm sure my freindly dealer will be trying to sell me the kitchen sink.

 

Arland,
I've moved you to the pre 2006 section.
What mileage?
What bits come with a new engine?

 

If nothing else is broken, there should be nothing else to fix. Just fresh oil and fresh coolant. A new belt is not a bad idea.

 

Steve,
I was thinking of a trans oil change while it's at the shop - he'd need an engine though!!

 

I'm finding this story a little hard to beleive...

OK if it's only going to cost you $500 for a brand new long motor then it's hard to say no. I assume the crate motor will be bottom end plus heads & timing gear already assembled, part number AJ83804, question is will it have an E at the end of the number for Exhange, or N for New. Because the N has been superceded in the catalog & only exchange engines appear to be available....just be sure when they say new that it's not a rebuilt exchange unit...

But this is still crazy, did they even identify the cause of the compression loss? Could be a valve seat or stem seal, i.e. a new head, but a whole new engine?

If they don't sell individual engine parts then why are all the individual items listed in the parts catalog? Name a part, it has a part number & a price...

If I was in your shoes, i'd be taking the day off & being there when they pull the engine out, see for your self what they are doing.

Don't know how many miles on your car but if you've got some miles on it then a water pump would be cheap insurance, also all the coolant hoses (especially the valley hose under the supercharger).

In fact, you might want to contact Paragon Design (xkracer here on the forum) if i'm not mistaken he has a full set of red silicone hoses that were returned by a customer.

Lots of other stuff you could do while the engine is out....all depends on your budget....

 

This also sounds like one of the oddest stories I have heard. For one thing, what "bumper-to-bumper" warranty do you have on the car--Jaguar? Aftermarket?

Regardless I have never heard of an entire engine replacement for something like this.


Doug

 

hmm, for the want of an OBD code reader - there was an engine warning light so they'll be engine codes, from these and the compression check Jaguar recommend a new unit?

For that to happen that means a con rod out of the side of the block, or bore damage, and how that's decided I don't know without them actually taking a look at the inside of the engine...all a bit fishy this.

Can you take the car somewhere else for a second opinion? What is the quote for the engine change by the way....

 

It would be useful if you could get a leak down test carried out, to determine what is causing the low compression.

 

Arland: I have not used Fields but have had some work done by Jenkins - Milwaukee and they have a VERY competent tech, Steve Blaubach.

I would definitely get a second opinion from Jenkins.

Also, I had MRAZ change my Fuel Pumps and they did a very competent job. And, they are not far from you.

 

I tend to agree with most of the comments, but if he's going to get a new engine in the car for $500 what's not to like?

 

+1

that's a big score .. any extras they sell like belts would be inconsequential.

 

Thank you all for your comments. Jaguar organization sent a technician to the Fields dealership here in Milwaukee to check the Field tech's diagnosis. He followed all the factory troubleshooting protocols required for the case 1 cylinder low on compression for the response to the P0302 and P1316 codes to check the work of the local tech, an African-American named Steve. After doing their checks together, they confirmed the result is "Internal Engine fault of unknown cause". The warranty was purchased from Jaguar, their premium extended warranty, which for the last 2 years was around $4,000 USD. The warranty people are expected by these two guys to approve the new engine, but they did say before they do finally approve it , they may want to pay Fields the tear down costs to determine the real cause. Apparently though, the remaining possibilities have to do with the ring lands, cylinder wall, broken camshaft lobe or piston anomaly. I will keep you all posted. Regardless, the fee out of me is $500 max under my warranty terms.Also, they insist in the USA they will not sell dealers internal engine parts to maintain control over their quality- that work must be done by Jaguar and the swap performed. As far as the 'N' designation or not- they only called it a 'crate motor'so maybe it is not new but rebuilt, though they did say the word new. And as far as my budget is concerned, I watch my money except the expenditures for my Jag. It is so odd that I could develop such a strong affection for an inanimate object as I have for that car, but it is like a family member in the way I think of it and derive pleasure in my life from association with it.I'll have to work on my signature block, because I finally broke with the Perilli brand and put a set of Hankooks on it a couple weeks ago and am very pleased with the near identical performance with the better, quieter ride. Thanks again, respondants. I will keep you informed of the so-called 'fishy' circumstance. Just don't shoot the messenger, I'm not making this up.

 

I dont know the laws in Wisconsin, but in Cali they have to document if the part is new, used or rebuilt on the work order. If not stated, it has to be new or you can hold them to task at a much later date. IN other owrds if there is a falure past the warranty period and you find nothing was called out on the work order, the part did turn out to be rebuilt, they would still have to fix it or replace with new.
With that being said, most manufacturers will have rebuilt motors availible instead of new. They also will have to perform a leakdown test to see where the fault lies.

 

UPDATE TO MY LITTLE DRAMA

I got a call from Field's service manager, Bob Bertnick. He told me the warrranty people are requesting that Field's remove the left cylinder bank and inspect it to see what may be wrong. He said they thought it could be a bent valve. They did mentiion, however, that there would be no warranty claim paid if the cylinder was just carboned up. They said it had to be a mechanical problem. The estimate for labor here is 19 hours to take off and put back the head at $125 per hour labor rate. That is a tidy $2,375 plus parts. I asked what I could possibly have done to carbon up one cylinder when all the others were running fine and I never buy less than high octane premium fuel. Also, that each coil feeds 2 cylinders, says Bob, so that could not be it. He has never had them say this before. He claims it is because of our econoic doldrums and money is tight. He also said a rebuilt crate motor is $10,000.
I researched this- there are 2 low mile used engines , one 32,000 and one 42,000 for sale at $5,000. This caviat on a warranty I was told covers all but consumable parts is disappointing.

 

Let me see if I understand this correctly... a misfire code on a single cylinder + an emissions threshold exceeded = new engine...simply WOW. (there is no smiley-icon that could adequately represent my stunned look of confusion here.

This happened to me last month, I was just driving along, CEL blinked at me (indicating a consistent misfire and pending catalyst damage!!), and I turned right around and went back home. I had the same codes (different cylinder, however) I replaced the offending coil-on-plug, cleared the codes, and all was good.

 

When I worked at the dealer the policy was that a NEW part was installed if the car had less than 3000 miles or was less than several months old.

After that only EXCHANGE parts were fitted if they were available.

We rarely did major repairs on engines, gearboxes etc. unless Tech Line OKed the repair.
This only for Jaguar Warranty and an insurance company may have a different policy.

(check your state and local laws, your mileage may vary)

bob gauff

 

H2OBoy-
You forgot to add that 7 cylinders had 150 or more compression and #2 had only 100 psi. I mentiioned this earlier in the thread.

 

Again, thanks to all. Maybe I should just suck up on my little drama, but this did sound messed up to me and I wanted your feedback. I'm supposed to know within a couple days if I have to cut my pub bill $3,000 usd this month or not. Pity, as 'tis the football season, that is American football, and I enjoy that and the fall leaves with the top down. Oh well, infected with the love of the marque, have to pay the piper. If tthey don't cover it on warranty, however, I will file on them with the barrister and sue in small claims court to make it an expensive bit for them as punishment. I do have more money than brains, just like to do the smart thing if I can.

 

Paul Pavlik-

Was your Steve an African-American? The Steve at Field's is- maybe the same one? Thx for the good word. This flusters me, as I hatte feeling like I'm getting screwed on a deal, and the caveat of 'if it isn't carboned up' does not make me feel liike I have a complete warranty as advertised by Field's. When I get my cat out of the hospital, we should maybe get together and compare iron. The only other XK series cars I've seen in Miilwaukee are a pacific blue XK8 convertible, a silver XKR, a gold over gold XK8, a salsa red with tan top XK8, and a black/black XKR. None of these were coupes.

 

Have the engine Terracleaned, that will absolutely clear any possibility of the cylinder being "carboned up"....cheaper than lifting a head off...