When Jaguar says you must have a new engine
#41
10-26-2012, 02:49 PM
Randyb-
It sounds fishy to me too, but as I've said earlier in the thread, I am the messenger, don't shoot me. If you want the source of my comments, it is Robert Westcott Bertnick, 'Gold Certified Service Advisor' for Jaguar Waukesha. His e-mail is bbertnick@fieldsauto.com. The Company is officially called Field's Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. The reason I beleieve they are Jag dealers is they have about 100 new ones at the dealership. They work on the high end stuff because they had an Aston Martin DB-9 and a Fisker in the shop along with mine. He was the one who told me the carrbon as a problem was eliminated by the Terracleaning as a possibiility, and the #2 cylinder head opened clean after the procedure. If you think I am not telling the truth, you are sorely mistakeI hope this will satisfy your need to overcome the fishy feeling you have. If you want to play sleuth, the contact info for Bob Bertnick is above for your pleasure. Thanks for your comment- all of these comments are ttreasured by me, because I do not know much about engines. All I know is I love my XKR.
It sounds fishy to me too, but as I've said earlier in the thread, I am the messenger, don't shoot me. If you want the source of my comments, it is Robert Westcott Bertnick, 'Gold Certified Service Advisor' for Jaguar Waukesha. His e-mail is bbertnick@fieldsauto.com. The Company is officially called Field's Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. The reason I beleieve they are Jag dealers is they have about 100 new ones at the dealership. They work on the high end stuff because they had an Aston Martin DB-9 and a Fisker in the shop along with mine. He was the one who told me the carrbon as a problem was eliminated by the Terracleaning as a possibiility, and the #2 cylinder head opened clean after the procedure. If you think I am not telling the truth, you are sorely mistakeI hope this will satisfy your need to overcome the fishy feeling you have. If you want to play sleuth, the contact info for Bob Bertnick is above for your pleasure. Thanks for your comment- all of these comments are ttreasured by me, because I do not know much about engines. All I know is I love my XKR.
#42
10-29-2012, 10:59 PM
Further to the drama-After being told that JAG will do th one cylinder head and have decided to put a 'new one on', allegedly at $1,400 US, they have determined that they will replace the othr head complete 'new' at another $1,400.00. That is part cost, so it is $2,800 usd plus $2,375 usd for parts and labor- a sum of $5,175.00, of which I pay $500. Then it is on to the upholsterer. Then maybe new rugs and new green growlers for the BBS wheel hubs and with the new Hankooks and a good detail, also the refinished top, it should be reasonably sharp. And- I don't lose the 75 HP from the boltons (for some reason only measuring 68 more than stock).
Then I'm off to Haiti for another consulting gig, after which I hope to have earned the 'spare' money for an F-type. One thing is for sure, the Land rover sure doesn't attract female attention like the XKR.
Then I'm off to Haiti for another consulting gig, after which I hope to have earned the 'spare' money for an F-type. One thing is for sure, the Land rover sure doesn't attract female attention like the XKR.
#43
10-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Randyb-
It sounds fishy to me too, but as I've said earlier in the thread, I am the messenger, don't shoot me. If you want the source of my comments, it is Robert Westcott Bertnick, 'Gold Certified Service Advisor' for Jaguar Waukesha. His e-mail is bbertnick@fieldsauto.com. The Company is officially called Field's Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. The reason I beleieve they are Jag dealers is they have about 100 new ones at the dealership. They work on the high end stuff because they had an Aston Martin DB-9 and a Fisker in the shop along with mine. He was the one who told me the carrbon as a problem was eliminated by the Terracleaning as a possibiility, and the #2 cylinder head opened clean after the procedure. If you think I am not telling the truth, you are sorely mistakeI hope this will satisfy your need to overcome the fishy feeling you have. If you want to play sleuth, the contact info for Bob Bertnick is above for your pleasure. Thanks for your comment- all of these comments are ttreasured by me, because I do not know much about engines. All I know is I love my XKR.
It sounds fishy to me too, but as I've said earlier in the thread, I am the messenger, don't shoot me. If you want the source of my comments, it is Robert Westcott Bertnick, 'Gold Certified Service Advisor' for Jaguar Waukesha. His e-mail is bbertnick@fieldsauto.com. The Company is officially called Field's Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. The reason I beleieve they are Jag dealers is they have about 100 new ones at the dealership. They work on the high end stuff because they had an Aston Martin DB-9 and a Fisker in the shop along with mine. He was the one who told me the carrbon as a problem was eliminated by the Terracleaning as a possibiility, and the #2 cylinder head opened clean after the procedure. If you think I am not telling the truth, you are sorely mistakeI hope this will satisfy your need to overcome the fishy feeling you have. If you want to play sleuth, the contact info for Bob Bertnick is above for your pleasure. Thanks for your comment- all of these comments are ttreasured by me, because I do not know much about engines. All I know is I love my XKR.
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Arland Green (12-14-2012)
#44
10-30-2012, 12:35 PM
Further to the drama-After being told that JAG will do th one cylinder head and have decided to put a 'new one on', allegedly at $1,400 US, they have determined that they will replace the othr head complete 'new' at another $1,400.00. That is part cost, so it is $2,800 usd plus $2,375 usd for parts and labor- a sum of $5,175.00, of which I pay $500. Then it is on to the upholsterer. Then maybe new rugs and new green growlers for the BBS wheel hubs and with the new Hankooks and a good detail, also the refinished top, it should be reasonably sharp. And- I don't lose the 75 HP from the boltons (for some reason only measuring 68 more than stock).
Then I'm off to Haiti for another consulting gig, after which I hope to have earned the 'spare' money for an F-type. One thing is for sure, the Land rover sure doesn't attract female attention like the XKR.
Then I'm off to Haiti for another consulting gig, after which I hope to have earned the 'spare' money for an F-type. One thing is for sure, the Land rover sure doesn't attract female attention like the XKR.
#45
10-31-2012, 12:15 AM
No worries
Randyb-
On the engine, they are saying they are replacing both heads now, not the engine in total. It is a moving target. All I want is my baby back. And Haiti is not why I am going, it is to support the United States Navy, as they are the one putting in the systems. Haiti is corrupt. The US Government is slightly less corrupt (but much more corrupt than usual now).
Anyway, I did the normal things as a child- set the house on fire in the winter 5 days before Christmas as an 8 year old, shot the windows out of my father's collector car with a BB gun at 10, that sort of thing. (Regrettably true, but how else does a young man qualify for Military School as a young lad?
Regards, andf Thanks for your interest-
Arland Green
On the engine, they are saying they are replacing both heads now, not the engine in total. It is a moving target. All I want is my baby back. And Haiti is not why I am going, it is to support the United States Navy, as they are the one putting in the systems. Haiti is corrupt. The US Government is slightly less corrupt (but much more corrupt than usual now).
Anyway, I did the normal things as a child- set the house on fire in the winter 5 days before Christmas as an 8 year old, shot the windows out of my father's collector car with a BB gun at 10, that sort of thing. (Regrettably true, but how else does a young man qualify for Military School as a young lad?
Regards, andf Thanks for your interest-
Arland Green
#46
11-06-2012, 05:47 PM
further to the saga
Jaguar called me today to tell me that I have zero deductible, not 500 usd, so the repair will be covered on the three cylinders that had failed.
The failed elements were the valves. There is 30 hours of labor that will be covered. They are charging $20.00 for a new oil filter. $75.00 for the Terracleaning. Jag damaged my heatshield getting the heads off, but calls that coincidental damage and wants me to pay $163.00 to replace it. They want to put in new spark plugs for $16.00 each x 8 = $128.00. The unusual thing to me was that they said the machine shop recommends that I should not continue to use the other valves in the undamaged 5 cylinders. They think I should buy 10 inlet valves at $27.00 each for $274.00, and 10 exhaust valves for $40.15 each, or $401.00. So-
I know I have been all over the map with this story. I rely on you guys on the forum to tell me if I am getting hosed or if this is typical. In short, my zero deductible repair will end up costing me an extra $675.00 to achieve what they say will be functionally new heads on both sides. That means my no deductible repair , with the new parts I buy will give me a new engine on the top- since the cam lobes mic out great, and now I just need tto freak about the rings and ring lands and the main bearings on the crank. The warranty coverrs all the gaskets, valve guides, valve springs, etc. Also, the tensioners on the chains that drive the cams can fail, I'm told, but hey, you can't have everything. Comments are welcome- I told them to go ahead and replace the other 20 valves not covered by the warranty.
The failed elements were the valves. There is 30 hours of labor that will be covered. They are charging $20.00 for a new oil filter. $75.00 for the Terracleaning. Jag damaged my heatshield getting the heads off, but calls that coincidental damage and wants me to pay $163.00 to replace it. They want to put in new spark plugs for $16.00 each x 8 = $128.00. The unusual thing to me was that they said the machine shop recommends that I should not continue to use the other valves in the undamaged 5 cylinders. They think I should buy 10 inlet valves at $27.00 each for $274.00, and 10 exhaust valves for $40.15 each, or $401.00. So-
I know I have been all over the map with this story. I rely on you guys on the forum to tell me if I am getting hosed or if this is typical. In short, my zero deductible repair will end up costing me an extra $675.00 to achieve what they say will be functionally new heads on both sides. That means my no deductible repair , with the new parts I buy will give me a new engine on the top- since the cam lobes mic out great, and now I just need tto freak about the rings and ring lands and the main bearings on the crank. The warranty coverrs all the gaskets, valve guides, valve springs, etc. Also, the tensioners on the chains that drive the cams can fail, I'm told, but hey, you can't have everything. Comments are welcome- I told them to go ahead and replace the other 20 valves not covered by the warranty.
#47
11-06-2012, 06:01 PM
There is no way you should be paying for the Terracleaning, if they requested it be done and a oil filter should be included. Wow, I am glad I do not have your warranty.
And for the valves, it looks like they are trying to get you to pay for those too, because what they are charging for the valves and the spark plugs will pay for the valves.
The heat shield cannot be called collateral damage.
Have you talked to Jag warranty directly or is this what the shop is saying?
And for the valves, it looks like they are trying to get you to pay for those too, because what they are charging for the valves and the spark plugs will pay for the valves.
The heat shield cannot be called collateral damage.
Have you talked to Jag warranty directly or is this what the shop is saying?
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Arland Green (11-07-2012)
#48
11-06-2012, 06:53 PM
Veteran Member
I've been reading your story from the beginning and it I were you I'd tell the shop that you are engaging an attorney and calling Jaguar USA. There is no way that you should pay for any of it. They damaged the heat shield, not you. Therefore they are responsible. As for the 20 valves, either they are good or not. If the experts are calling them bad and you shouldn't use them, then the warranty should cover them and they should be replaced. I go ballistic; $675 should buy a very nasty letter from a good lawyer!
Mark
Mark
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Arland Green (11-07-2012)
#49
11-06-2012, 10:17 PM
Not that I necessarily side with any warranty company, remember one thing: they cover "failed" components. If the other valves are worn from use, and the plugs are worn from normal wear, etc then I would expect the owner would be responsible for taking part in the complete "refresh" as compared to simply repairing what failed. They should buy the oil filter and oil if they are to guarantee their repair. If not, tell them to put the old filter and oil (which now likely has coolant in it!) back in the engine and guarantee it! I'll bet they don't! The pistons and rings? If they say these parts are useable, then go with it. Don't make yourself nuts! They are responsible for the outcome to meet your satisfaction, and they made the call. You will have a 12 month/ 12,000 mile guarantee from the dealer (that is typical) for the parts and labor they performed, and you will still have your warranty if they miss something, or if it fails to perform correctly. As for the heat shield, the dealer ruined it. The dealer needs to replace it. That's a no-brainer. Document everything, and keep a file on this deal just to cover yourself should anything need future attention. Hard to believe this all started with a check engine light!
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Arland Green (11-07-2012)
#50
11-06-2012, 10:25 PM
One more thing, "they" requested the Terracleaning. "They" need to pay for it! Plus any other diagnostic parts, materials or labor used to determine the engine condition, and required repairs needed. Your only responsibility was to buy the warranty. You did that. Now they need to step up and cover what they say they will cover. Read your warranty carefully and see exactly what it covers, and what it does not cover. For instance, fluids may not be covered as a case in point, but if the failed component ruins the oil (for example), it should be covered. Just my thoughts as an experienced 37 year mechanic and former service manager.
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Arland Green (11-07-2012)
#51
11-07-2012, 03:52 AM
Thank you, family!
Guys-
It is wonderful to ask and almost immediately recieve answers that are straight forward and thought provoking. You are right. I will save the records and consider further action. It will depend on the quality of the repair and the way my car runs and sounds when I fire her up again. I still have my freakin' UK-Hide hide to reupholster my two front Recaro seats with as well.
I have to add that unlesss these guys are members of the Screen Actor's Guild, they are making a credible case to me that they 'almost never' have a bad engine claim. Anyway the car has 86,000 miles on it now. I have no idea what the life expectancy of this engine is, but I've seen them offered with 200,000 miles on them. Oh, also, they told me the shocks are good for the life of the car. That seems weird. So, I guess I'm gettting a $6,100.00 repair for the out of pocket cost to me of less than $1,200.00. That is another way to look at it. It just seemed strange, and my car has been down for more than 3 weeks already.
It is wonderful to ask and almost immediately recieve answers that are straight forward and thought provoking. You are right. I will save the records and consider further action. It will depend on the quality of the repair and the way my car runs and sounds when I fire her up again. I still have my freakin' UK-Hide hide to reupholster my two front Recaro seats with as well.
I have to add that unlesss these guys are members of the Screen Actor's Guild, they are making a credible case to me that they 'almost never' have a bad engine claim. Anyway the car has 86,000 miles on it now. I have no idea what the life expectancy of this engine is, but I've seen them offered with 200,000 miles on them. Oh, also, they told me the shocks are good for the life of the car. That seems weird. So, I guess I'm gettting a $6,100.00 repair for the out of pocket cost to me of less than $1,200.00. That is another way to look at it. It just seemed strange, and my car has been down for more than 3 weeks already.
#52
11-07-2012, 07:51 AM
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randyb-
anyway, i did the normal things as a child- set the house on fire in the winter 5 days before christmas as an 8 year old, shot the windows out of my father's collector car with a bb gun at 10, that sort of thing. (regrettably true, but how else does a young man qualify for military school as a young lad?
Regards, andf thanks for your interest-
arland green
anyway, i did the normal things as a child- set the house on fire in the winter 5 days before christmas as an 8 year old, shot the windows out of my father's collector car with a bb gun at 10, that sort of thing. (regrettably true, but how else does a young man qualify for military school as a young lad?
Regards, andf thanks for your interest-
arland green
#53
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Who is your"jaguar" warranty, select edition or extra mile???
2nd new heads from jaguar come complete, new valves, springs, and you swap over the old cams and shim correctly with buckets. And other than bent valves, there should be no reason why old valves cannot be reused and lapped in. I just dont feel someone is being totally upfront. Yes i feel that your dealing with a small jag dealer thats padding their repairs. Curious who like i said your warranty through "jaguar" is? if extra mile yeah this type crap sounds like them and its not really jaguar but a contractor that only pays 'warranty" labor times but yet pulls bs like no "incidentals" related to repairs like fluids and ask for tests to be done that they dont pay for but the customer does. We hate extra mile and do not sell them. Ask for old parts to be saved, but call now because I toss everything unless you let me know to save them. otherwise my stall would look like a junk yard quickly. Seems like theyre saying "NEW" heads and what theyre really doing is rebuilding yours
2nd new heads from jaguar come complete, new valves, springs, and you swap over the old cams and shim correctly with buckets. And other than bent valves, there should be no reason why old valves cannot be reused and lapped in. I just dont feel someone is being totally upfront. Yes i feel that your dealing with a small jag dealer thats padding their repairs. Curious who like i said your warranty through "jaguar" is? if extra mile yeah this type crap sounds like them and its not really jaguar but a contractor that only pays 'warranty" labor times but yet pulls bs like no "incidentals" related to repairs like fluids and ask for tests to be done that they dont pay for but the customer does. We hate extra mile and do not sell them. Ask for old parts to be saved, but call now because I toss everything unless you let me know to save them. otherwise my stall would look like a junk yard quickly. Seems like theyre saying "NEW" heads and what theyre really doing is rebuilding yours
#56
11-11-2012, 12:03 PM
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#57
11-11-2012, 11:08 PM
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Norri (11-12-2012)
#59
11-17-2012, 08:06 PM
I hate to sound dumb, but.....
The day before Thanksgiving, i.e. Novemebr 21 , I'm to get my Jag back. So- now with brand new valves, valve springs, valve guides and pushrods, is there anything I have to be aware of that the dealer may not mention, such as anything to do as in a 'break in' period, or is it just good to go chasing Porsches again?