Window rolls down when door is opened
#21
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Ok, I checked this and the front windows roll up using the key in the door, but only the passenger window will roll down. The top does not go up using the key in the door.
#22
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deovolente (04-17-2017)
#23
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This is definitely a conundrum ![Smile](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm thinking that the electronics doesn't always know where the window is positioned.
Ultimately you're going to have to take the door card off and do some detective work, but try one more more check:
Open the window most of the way down (with the door closed) and then open the door using the outside handle. Does the window drop all the way or not move?
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I'm thinking that the electronics doesn't always know where the window is positioned.
Ultimately you're going to have to take the door card off and do some detective work, but try one more more check:
Open the window most of the way down (with the door closed) and then open the door using the outside handle. Does the window drop all the way or not move?
Last edited by michaelh; 04-17-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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deovolente (04-17-2017)
#25
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This is definitely a conundrum ![Smile](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm thinking that the electronics doesn't always know where the window is positioned.
Ultimately you're going to have to take the door card off and do some detective work, but try one more more check:
Open the window most of the way down (with the door closed) and then open the door using the outside handle. Does the window drop all the way or not move?
![Smile](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm thinking that the electronics doesn't always know where the window is positioned.
Ultimately you're going to have to take the door card off and do some detective work, but try one more more check:
Open the window most of the way down (with the door closed) and then open the door using the outside handle. Does the window drop all the way or not move?
#26
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The killer issues for me now, given all your feedback, are that when you open door and window is lowering . . . (1) internal manual window switch does not interrupt, stop or reverse window motion, but will once window is fully down . . . and (2) closing door immediately stops window motion, but re-opening continues window down.
Definitely, the door card has to come off . . . you may have a wiring anomaly (eg short, particularly short to ground) around either the door lock or window winder mechanisms, or a lousy connector. While not unknown, the far more common area for wiring failures is at the hinge point between A-pillar and door frame.
Check all circuits in door methodically because I fear the sole remaining issue is the door/window control module and its programming to your car . . . and for that, a detailed quote to achieve full dealer repair is warranted to avoid nasty surprises.
Cheers
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Ken
Definitely, the door card has to come off . . . you may have a wiring anomaly (eg short, particularly short to ground) around either the door lock or window winder mechanisms, or a lousy connector. While not unknown, the far more common area for wiring failures is at the hinge point between A-pillar and door frame.
Check all circuits in door methodically because I fear the sole remaining issue is the door/window control module and its programming to your car . . . and for that, a detailed quote to achieve full dealer repair is warranted to avoid nasty surprises.
Cheers
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Ken
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
#27
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On reflection it doesn't matter whether it's the inner or outer door handle the effect should be the same.
When the door latch is operated, an instruction is sent to the window to drop slightly. If it's fully closed, then it will do so. If it isn't then there's nothing to do as it's already clear of the roof/top, so it shouldn't move. That is how mine behaves, and is why I believe the window position is unknown.
I can't explain why the state of the door has an effect on the window motion: mine does not behave as you describe.
I would add that the window position sensors are built into the lift mechanism, so that's another possibility.
However, enough theorising: follow Ken's advice first, and if you can't find anything under the door card, I would advise swapping the module out with the passenger side one.
I know it's a PITA with all the fragile clips, but if the dealer diagnosis is wrong you may well continue paying for further parts to be swapped until the last one fitted cures the problem....
Just my![Icon Twocents](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_twocents.gif)
Mike
When the door latch is operated, an instruction is sent to the window to drop slightly. If it's fully closed, then it will do so. If it isn't then there's nothing to do as it's already clear of the roof/top, so it shouldn't move. That is how mine behaves, and is why I believe the window position is unknown.
I can't explain why the state of the door has an effect on the window motion: mine does not behave as you describe.
I would add that the window position sensors are built into the lift mechanism, so that's another possibility.
However, enough theorising: follow Ken's advice first, and if you can't find anything under the door card, I would advise swapping the module out with the passenger side one.
I know it's a PITA with all the fragile clips, but if the dealer diagnosis is wrong you may well continue paying for further parts to be swapped until the last one fitted cures the problem....
Just my
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Mike
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
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Brad, Mike . . . I should explain my comments in post #26, because Mike's analysis in #27 is correct in explaining logic for an initial "roof clearing" window drop, but it should then immediately stop. Keep in mind that all the in-door wiring is "hot" . . . +12V measurable on both sides of window motor . . . and motion moves to limit if the appropriate switch ties the ground seeking lead to earth.
It is possible that the external door handle, in unlatching the door-lock, is also, whether via a mechanical fault or electrical fault, falsely shorting the downwards ground seeking lead. Bottom line? You need to access and check the external door handle, mechanicals and wiring. Make sense?
Regards,
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Ken
It is possible that the external door handle, in unlatching the door-lock, is also, whether via a mechanical fault or electrical fault, falsely shorting the downwards ground seeking lead. Bottom line? You need to access and check the external door handle, mechanicals and wiring. Make sense?
Regards,
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Ken
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
#29
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Just to build on Mike's comments, don't forget the window will (should) only drop if car thinks door is closed. By default the window is always already down a bit whenever the door is open.
This is tough. The fact that movement stops upon closing the door must indicate that the door swit h is working.
This is tough. The fact that movement stops upon closing the door must indicate that the door swit h is working.
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
#30
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It is possible that the external door handle, in unlatching the door-lock, is also, whether via a mechanical fault or electrical fault, falsely shorting the downwards ground seeking lead. Bottom line? You need to access and check the external door handle, mechanicals and wiring. Make sense?
#31
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Why did they put so many delicate clips on such an expensive car?
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#32
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Economics:- 10 pennies saved on each door is nearly £20K added to the bottom line over the production run.
It is possible that the external door handle, in unlatching the door-lock, is also, whether via a mechanical fault or electrical fault, falsely shorting the downwards ground seeking lead. Bottom line? You need to access and check the external door handle, mechanicals and wiring. Make sense?
Brad, you have to help us and start eliminating things or we could all be here hypothesising until it fixes itself LOL
It is a good one, though...
Mike
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
#33
#34
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Since the controls in the car all seem to work as they should and the window drops only when the door is opened from either the inside or out, the global opening/locking seems to be pointing at the break in the sequence: If the top and windows are all down, this only raises the two front windows. If the top and windows are all up, this will lower all windows except the driver's and it will also lower the top.
Would this confirm that the driver's door module is indeed the problem?
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deovolente (04-18-2017)
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I agree. Maybe, but not conclusive. What is conclusive are the observed facts -
Best wishes,
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Ken
- window motor and mechanicals are working in both directions;
- window down/up switch is working, but over-ridden as door opens;
- both int & ext door lock mechs are calling a "full down" rather than "inch down";
- all in-door wiring is ground seeking, so any earth short will produce movement;
- global functions all OK except for driver's window.
- taking all the first 4 points above, a short to earth on the down "ground-seeking" side of window motor which is created when opening door (by either int or ext handle) overrides the normal "inch down" function by driving window fully down . . . my case to date;
- however, with Brad's info now on globals that see driver's window misbehaving even with door closed, this suggests otherwise.
Best wishes,
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Ken
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deovolente (04-19-2017)
#37
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- however, with Brad's info now on globals that see driver's window misbehaving even with door closed, this suggests otherwise.
#38
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