Gentlemen (and Ladies)

I tried searching and apologize if this has been asked, but I couldn't find my issue.

2002 XK8 Convertible with 114,000 miles.

New to me, and my first Jaguar. I have done a lot of work on my Ford, Chevy, Jeep and Lotus vehicles and consider myself a decent mechanic, but I am not familiar with Jaguar. I have rebuilt Jeep Automatic transmissions in the past, and have a 2 post lift in my garage.

Today, during a "spirited" drive I lost forward gears. It warned me a few times with jerky shifts and then stopped completely. Reverse still works fine. No visible leaks, no nasty noises. "Transmission Problem" showing in info window.

The car has the classic sporadic Trac/abs/asc issue, assumed to be the abs controller but just haven't taken it apart yet.

Could it be as simple as low fluid? Should I try a filter/fluid service or am I deluding myself? If I stop the transmission pan, what should I look for other than the obvious metallic debris?

Any advice and suggestions appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Martin
Long Island, NY
2002 Jaguar XK8 Convertible
1999 GMC Suburban
1989 Jeep Wrangler YJ
1986 Lotus Esprit
1981 Mercedes 380SL

 

Welcome to the forum Martin,

I think you'll be very lucky if a fluid/filter change brings it back to life but several members here have suffered transmission failure and may be able to give a more optimistic view.

Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

OK. Further research points to the A drum issue. I see Rockauto seems to offer 2 A drums, both by TRANSMAXX part #'s 7614202 and 7514203. The 02 version is nearly 3 times the cost of the 03, but I cannot find any further information. Can anyone tell me what the difference is, and should I get the more expensive version?

Also are there any other parts or fixes the group would recommend while I'm doing the drum? I always do filter and front seal when I'm inside a transmission - anything else to consider? Shift improvement kit perhaps?

Thank you.

 

I am *guessing* that the difference in price is between a new, original style drum and a redesigned reinforced style.

 

Reputedly, the fix for these failed A-drums is a better valve in the valve body. Folks seem to buy a kit made by Transgo:

transgo-pressure-regulator-upgrade-179012/

Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

I called Transmaxx to get the real answer on the two A-Drums. A very helpful fellow told me that the more expensive version on Rockauto (part 7614202) is the OEM manufactured by ZF from Germany. Not re-designed or improved, just the direct OEM replacement for the unit that has failed. The less expensive unit (Part 7514203) is an aftermarket part, also identical to the failed original. He said they sell 10 for 1 of the aftermarket units compared to the OEM, and the "fail in-warranty" ratio is the same for both parts. He endorsed Fmertz suggestion and advised that the aftermarket drum with the Transgo valve body modification would likely be a "lifetime" fix for a vehicle that is otherwise unmodified.

Unfortunately, as I look at Rockauto to confirm part numbers I notice that I appear to have purchased the last of the aftermarket units that they had in stock, but I am sure that they will be restocking as I type.

If anyone has any tips for easing the removal of the offending transmission they would be gratefully received. I do have a 2 post lift and get the car almost 4 feet off the floor before I run out of headroom (that is going to be resolved with some ridge-beam modification as soon as this project is completed ,,,,). I also have a "real" transmission jack with the tilt/yaw adjusters. I also have a nasty feeling it's not going to be as easy as a Jeep Grand Cherokee .....

I will post further information as the repair progresses.

 

So the transmission is out, the A drum has separated from the shaft and the three O rings on the shaft have disintegrated. Is there a source for just the O rings and piston seals, or will I be forced to buy an entire rebuild kit to get a few dollars worth of rubber o-rings?

Sources for individual ZF5HP24 parts gratefully received.

Thank you in advance.

 

How hard was it actually to remove the transmission? I've pulled alot of transmissions, but not one out of a jag.

 

He is a link of a discussion on A drum repair.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...t=Dreaded+drum
I have removed 2 XK8s and 2 XJ8s transmissions. It's not that difficult. I took pics the last time I removed the transmission. I've been out of town and haven't had much free time. I'll see if I can post a proceedure in the next couple of days.

 

That would be awesome! Thanks for the reply.

 

This was my "Minimal approach" where I only disconnected/removed the bare minimum parts to get the transmission out.

I used a Harbor Freight Low-Profile transmission jack. This XK8 is a heavy unit, I would NOT recommend trying the job without a proper transmission jack and definitely not with a trolley jack only.

I did not prop or suspend the engine, it barely moves when you remove the transmission and supporting it other than on its own mounts seemed unnecessary.

As with all major procedures, the battery was disconnected for the duration.


Notes: Left and right are used as if you are sitting in the drivers seat looking forward.
Fastener sizes where mentioned are from memory and may not be correct.
In all cases I used 6 point sockets.
Sometimes I substituted 13mm for 1/2" to get a little "slop" when it was awkward to get the 1/2" wrench in place, but always tried to break the fastener loose using the 1/2" wrench/socket.

1) Drench the 4 nuts on each header flange, the nut on each of the catalytic converter to center muffler clamps and the 2 transmssion to engine block dowel pins with your favourite penetrant/rust release (I like the yellow can WD40 spray)
2) Remove the transmission drain plug and drain transmission fluid. Replace plug when drained.
3) Drain enough coolant to empty the coolant header tank.
4) Undo the screw to release the coolant header tank and disconnect the level sensor and coolant hoses. Remove the tank for access to the transmission and exhaust fasteners.
5) Using a 1/2" socket with a universal joint undo the 4 nuts on each header flange.
6) Mark left and right and disconnect the 4 O2 sensor connectors.
7) Remove the 4 topmost bolts connecting the bellhousing to the engine by reaching in from the top. I unplugged the throttle position sensor so I could push the connector out of the way to get extra clearance on the right side.
8) Slacken the exhaust clamps between the catalytic converter and the center muffler pipes.
9) Remove the 4 bolts on each catalytic converter support bracket (between the catalytic converter and the bellhousing)
10) Allow the exhaust to drop and separate the catalytic converters from the center muffler and remove converters.
11) Remove the spreader bracket from the exhaust in front of the center muffler.
12) Remove the nuts and washers from the rear drive flange. Push the drive shaft flange back as far as it will go.
13) Remove the front flex plate cover and remove the 3 flex plate to torque converter bolts
14) Disconnect the 2 transmission cooler hoses.
15) Disconnect the shift selector arm and remove the 2 bolts from the shift selector cable bracket. Zip tie the cable back out of the way.
16) Disconnect the computer hookup at the left rear of the transmission (twist the lock ring to remove)
17) Disconnect the sensor cable running to the right hand side of the transmission.
18) Remove all except the two bell housing to block bolts closest to the dowel pins. Slacken these 2 but do not remove for now.
19) Install transmission jack to support transmission.
20) Remove rubber transmission mount from rear of transmission.
21) Remove alloy transmission mount bracket from chassis (4 bolts)
22) Remove the last 2 bellhousing to engine bolts.
23) Slide the transmission backwards and lower slightly. Do not lower more than 3 inches.
24) Push the transmission as far as it will go towards the right hand side to allow clearance to remove the left side coolant line from its socket in the transmission.
25) Using a 10mm 1/4 drive socket and ratchet remove the two bolts holding the wiring terminal block bracket to the top of the bellhousing.
26) Lower the transmission, pushing backwards to clear the torque converter from the flex plate. The exhaust will need to be maneuvered to clear the transmission, but it will clear.
27) Have someone to assist in lifting the unit to your bench. As previously mentioned, this sucker is heavy.

 

Thanks for posting this. It is much appreciated.

 

I just did mine twice (screwed it up the first time) The first time took me around 10 hours the second around 3.

 

Yes, it was a lot quicker to get it back in than remove it once I understood what the order of assembly was.

On the down side, the car drove and shifted nicely but still wasn't right so I bit the bullet and took it to a proper repair shop to get an estimate. They pulled the codes and said that the computer was pretty much suggesting that the entire transmission was worn out, probably due to the metallic powder from the failed A-Drum working as a grinding paste in the time between it breaking and failing completely.

They have quoted me a maximum of $2800 to do a full warranted remove/rebuild/replace and considering that a reputably rebuilt transmission goes for $2700 on its own, a master rebuild kit is $500-600 (with no guarantees that it will work/continue to work) and both those options use a minimum of 10 hours of my time I just told them to get on with it. Plus I'd have to figure out how to flush the crap out of the cooler.

I figure $2800 on Long Island, NY is not a bad deal at all and the owner of the company assured me that they use all new oem parts except for the shift kit which is the "upgraded" transgo.

I'm looking forward to being able to romp on it without worry when I get it back later in the week. I'll keep you all posted.