XK8 2004 Convertible Roof not working
I’ll try to b short. I’m at the end of my patience. My local mechanic couldn’t solve why the convertible roof will not operate, which also keeps the rear windows down. I hear a very faint noise seemingly to engage roof motor. The problem seemed to occur after needing battery jump.
So, I took to a specialty import garage who said “yes, we have the Jaguar software to diagnose & repair the problem”. I made an appt. 2 wks. in advance for JULY 26, 2021, 45 mins. away, I live in a rural area.
I STILL DONT HAVE MY CAR REPAIRED, NOR HAVE THEY DIAGNOSED! OVER 3 months!
At this point, I guess I need to retrieve my car.

my main questions are:
1) when mechanic talks “Jag software” r they talking about the CODE SCANNERS?
2) Will a code scanner diagnose, explain what repairs are needed to fix the faulty convertible roof?
(& other problems like CD player not working, but cassette is.)

I won’t b doing repairs myself. But my local mechanic said if I get “the code diagnosis” he’d then know what the problem is & could repair. He’s worked on my 1986 xj6 (now frame rusted).

thnx for anyone’s input!

 

Welcome to the forums Cino61,

I've moved your question from OBDII Code Scanners ** Member Approved ** thread in General Tech Help to XK8/XKR forum. Members here with the same model will be able to help.

Please follow this link New Member Area - Intro a MUST - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum to the New Member Area - Intro a MUST forum and post some information about yourself and your vehicle for all members to see. In return you'll get a proper welcome and some useful advice about posting to the forum.

Graham

 

Cindi:
1) yes it allows you to poll different modules for status and error codes.
2) very unlikely IMO. The convertible is a relatively simple mechanical electrical feature.

We can help you troubleshoot it, even fix it. But right now all we know is : it doesn't work.

Please say more! Is it stuck open? Closed?
Do rear windows work properly if closed?
Does the pump motor turn on when you press and hold the open close button?
Any messages in the display? (Hood not latched?)
Is there fluid in the pump?

Answer as many as you can. Separately describe the issue in detail. We can get started to help you. From what I've seen, short of a fluid leak you can probably fix this yourself fast enough.

I look forward to your comments. Oh yeah, important: Tell us year and model too!

John

 

You said in your post that the problem seemed to occur after a battery jump. Assuming that all was fine beforehand, you may have blown some control electronics with the jump. Jaguar handbooks advise against jumping and if really necessary only use another battery. Do not jump from another battery in a running car. When lowering the roof, the first thing that happens is the rear quarter windows drop. Is this happening?

 

Cino61,

As Johnken says, we need more info to help. Could be an easy fix, or may need parts as switches break, seals degrade and leak and/or the pump control is bad.

The convertible top is a relatively straightforward mechanical/electrical system controlled by a BCM module. It has relays and fuses in the trunk, a big hydraulic pump and numerous microswitches so the BCM knows where the system is and what to do next. It's not uncommon for the system to "get out of whack" and the BCM not be able to tell where/what/how the parts are.

Due to the low value of the car, some owners just convert the system to full manual to avoid the pain of hydraulics problems. It can be costly to repair, mainly due to labour costs. If you're handy with a wrench, the overhaul of the system to 100% functionality is not too bad and there's plenty of info on the subject for a DIY job. I did it myself - just be prepared for stripping alot of the interior if the hoses are bad (easy to spot behind the carpet trim in the RHS of the trunk as the black pipe coating falls off).

Answer the questions above, and that may to point to other simple things you can check to see what the problem may be. IE with the system fully shut, if you just briefly tap down on the convertible top control button, the rear quarter windows should drop. Press up and they should close. This will tell you if the rear quarter windows are fully operational. (If the rear quarter windows are stuck open, just jump the relay in the trunk to close), Youtube video below.


It's really just a question of elimination to try and narrow down what the problem is.

I'm pretty surprised your mechanic hasn't done this already. It's a "cop out" that he says he needs a Computer code reader for such a simple system - he just may be unfamiliar with hydraulic systems of this era, as they are all very similar across car brands.

 

2004 xj8 convertible, 58 k. Miles
Thnx all for your answers. My local mechanic DID close manually, but I wasn’t there in person. He said he tried to trouble shoot & couldn’t fix.

Answer to some questions…
1) Please say more! Is it stuck open? Closed? THE ROOF WAS STUCK OPEN (down). LOCAL MECHANIC CLOSED MANUALLY.
2) Do rear windows work properly if closed? NO, THE REAR WINDOWS STAY DOWN (open).
3) Does the pump motor turn on when you press and hold the open close button? I THINK I HEAR A FAINT NOISE WHEN PRESSED.
4) Any messages in the display? (Hood not latched?) YES, HOOD NOT LATCHED.(AFTER MANUALLY CLOSING, I CANT REMEMBER IF THATS STILL DISPLAYED, COS ITS BEEN OVER 3 MOS. SINCE IVE HAD THE CAR!)
5) Is there fluid in the pump? I DID NOT LOOK & WASNT SURE WHERE IT WAS. I SAW NO FLUID LEAKING THO.

other notes…
A) tow truck driver quickly jumped from a ‘battery box”.
B) if I could get the rear windows UP, I’d b happy for now! So, thnx for that video.

I NEVER expected so much hassle over this. Should I buy a code reader? Or is that not needed. I have a friend who could help troubleshoot with me. But, he’s been so busy w work I hate to ask.

SINCERE THNX ALL. Lemme kno what u think. And I’m gonna call the guy who’s holding my car hostage AGAIN TODAY! thnx again!

 

Thnx for this video!

 

Brotha,,, go get your car!
Folks here will help you get it sorted.

It IS a complicated thing, that works across many systems of the car - with the push of a tiny button. Everything needs to be "SET" and coordinated. If it gets Uncoordinated for any reason you have to get things back to "SET"... What needs to happen is that you, with battery disconnected, get everything SET,,, either at opened or closed (which will take some simple steps),,, and then attempt to operate the top 'normally'... From there, figuring out what is and isn't working is something 'we' can help with.

How did it get like this? Do you remember?

It's not a code thing - so a code reader ain't it... and Stomp on one of the mechanics feet when you pick it up,,, both if he tries to charge you money! Jus say'n

 

C,
Roof closed. Good
Closed and latched? Sure needs to be latched for rear windows to work. What does latched mean? Think of latch in center of rail above windshield.

How do I do it? In the trunk, right side. Grasp the black "wall" that surrounds the cd changer at top middle. It bends. Pull out, see the gold pump above cd changer on top of rack. Look at its mounting plate inside toward inner trunk) rear. See black Allen wrench snapped in its place ? Pull it out.

Now take 1 second and ensure the stop cocktail is screwed in finger tight. (This allows fluid to drive convertible rams). If roof was open, we want latch loose.

Now go to drivers seat with big flat blade screwdriver and pliers.

Look at center of inside vertical rail just above rear view mirror. See the plastic plug? Pay it out with clean screwdriver.

Insert long end of Allen wrench. Pliers are there cause its hard to turn. Stick somethimg between roof and rail, provide about 2 inches space. If roof won't move loosen stopcock.

Now Turn Allen wrench clockwise to raise latch.. let roof fall into latch mouth. Close latch with Allen wrench.

Try windows up switch.

Retighten stopcock.

Car engine on. Press roof open button. Listen for pump energizing.
Pump makes noise? No = blown fuse 30amp in trunk
Yes - good
Roof unmatched and works? No? View fluid level in the pump. Add fluid with battery if needed.
What kind of fluid? (Ask)

Pump works, roof and windows out of synch? I'd do hard reset on battery.

C, back to beginning of this message. What if roof is latched already? I'd manually unlatch, open stopcock, manually open roof fully. Close stop cocktail. Press and hold roof close switch.

No noise from pump? Get out of car. Go to drivers door insert key. In USA left hand drive turning and holding key counterclockwise opens 4 windows simultaneously then roof. All takes <20 seconds.

Turn key forward, alarms engage, roof closes, windows raise.

What if door works, inside switch doesn't? = bad inside switch

We now await your feedback or clarification requests

John

 

Let me see if I can help.

From what you are saying the roof comes up to close but the latch does not grab the roof to close. This would prevent the windows from closing.

First, you need to check the fluid level at the pump tank. The level of fluid should be at the above embossed line. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

Now, if the fluid is at the above line on the tank I will assume that the roof is a little confused with all the operations to make it work so I would recommend that you do a hard reset on the car to get all the relays and computers back to factory specifications. In order to do that you will need to open the roof manually (all the way back) and close the latch manually. In order to open the roof you will need to open the petcock on the tank to allow the fluid to flow freely so you can open the latch and open the roof manually. If you are unable to open the roof to push it open then you will need to unlock the linkage to both of the lifts for the roof. This is how you do this. http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...oof%20Rams.jpg This is how you do the hard reset. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

Now that you have the roof open and the latch closed you will need to close the petcock on the pump and start the car. With the engine running push the closed switch for the roof and hold. Do not let up off the switch until the roof has completed its operation. At that time the latch should come open for the roof and the roof should come up to the latch and the latch should grab the roof and close. Once the roof is closed, the windows should come up.

Now it is important that you pay attention to the roof operation as to what is taking place. We need to know what it is or is not doing and when. I would also suggest that you have someone at the trunk area to see and hear what the pump is doing.

This link has 2 videos that show the roof operation. As you can see in the videos the roof operation has a lot of switches and 2 computers allowing this roof system to operate properly and if one is not working or out of sequence the roof will not operate properly. Link to roof operation. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

Report back with your results.

 

Thnx EVERYBODY for your sincere interest!
a mechanic still has my car. I spoke to him Friday afternoon.
i sent him information from here & the window video.

I will follow up with how it goes. If need be I’ll just take my car back & troubleshoot from here.

 

I hope I’m posting in right area… I JUST got an update from the mechanic re ROOF situation.

1) there’s a red light blinking on the J Gate. (Which I DO remember)
2) the computer does not recognize the car is in park. (I don’t remember seeing anything on display regarding that)
(he said it look like someone did some after factory wiring. I do kno last owner wired to plug in/play his phone. And the CD wasn’t working. But there’s been other owners.)
3) he’s talked to their ‘jag contact’ & has also read the suggestions here.
4) he’s ordered a part that’s like $70 to get the car/computer to recognize the car is in PARK. (The car drove fine btw.)
5) will take a couple days for part to arrive.

that’s their starting point. He said a ‘reset’ won’t solve the issue.
It won’t b done this week.

any opinions will b of interest. Part of me is a bit relieved I’m hearing from them every day or so now & it’s in the garage being worked on. But, they can’t go further until that part is replaced. I assume it’s some sorta module?

thnx!

 

Interesting...
For me when I hear that the mechanic has the car I get all anxious. I have to try and remember that everyone AIN'T as financially challenged as I am, lol... Anywho.

There is a little 3-4 dollar micro switch (well documented in the forums) that sits right at the top of the shift throw that let's the car brain know that the car (shifter) is in park. Then, same type of micro switch in the "neutral" area of the shifter throw, to let the car brain know that the car is in neutral. An easy fix. Engagement of both switches by the shifter handle will allow the roof to operate and allow the car to start etc.

If he/she are in there it's really just a matter of messing around with either the old switch (the switch arm just wears and will break) or the wires to GET the car brains to believe it is in park/neutral...

Thing is, if it is infact that switch I don't see how the car would start. It shouldn't unless that switch is depressed. If that is infact what the problem is or what the mechanic is describing.

I'm interested in hearing more.

 

———-
I thought the same thing about it running while thinking it’s not in park. Then again maybe that’s better, it’s not in park so it runs. I think the switch WAS depressed (like ME!).
it’s hard to remember cos it’s been awhile.

 

Hahaha,,, I get it...

All jokes aside,,, you wouldn't be able to see these switches as they are buried in the jgate assembly. And,,, about the switches,,, if the park safety micro switch was fried say,,, the car wouldn't START (which would prevent a drive) in the first place unless one put the car in neutral - assuming that that switch was still working... The switches are a bugger

 

guess It’s troubleshooting… but at a slow pace! I told him last week he’s stressing me out. I’m driving a 2004 Sentra… a lil wobbly on the highway, & not a looker, but runs well. But an 04 Sentra were pretty cheaply made.

 

BTW I don't think anyone said it. Isn't the blinking red light just the alarm is on indicator?

John

 

that seems to be the case. Sounds like a bad ‘security module’. That MAY solve the issue. But, it’s seemingly the first issue. I think Someone mentioned that the module also operates the rear windows which r down & not working.
Thnx!

I’ll keep u posted.

 

Cino, If your car is running, or was running, but doesn't recognize it is in park, it doesn't seem to me that this would inhibit the roof from working. Unless I am misunderstanding that you have other problems related to not recognizing the transmission in park status.
At least on earlier models (mine is 2001) the roof will work even with the car in motion, so definitely does not need to be in park. This is from the workshop manual and I believe it is in the owner's handbook also:
"Operation of the convertible top is inhibited at vehicle speeds in excess of 16 km/h (10 mile/h). If the vehicle exceeds this speed when the top is moving to the lowered position, it will continue to the fully down position. Should the vehicle exceed this speed when the top is being raised, further movement will be inhibited until the speed is reduced."
Maybe the later models are different?
Nick

 

I’m very sorry for not updating this issue!
My xk8 conv. Was pretty much kidnapped by a 2nd mechanic trying to fix. He kept it for @ 2 months & fixed NOTHING! Pretty much a nut, imo.
i THEN turned to an Auto & Boat Reupholsterer. They’ve been in biz many years.
Well, the CONTACTS (electrical wires) for the convertible roof are UNDER THE J-Gate. Soda, dust, dirt, etc. can fall down there… the CONTACTS NEEDED CLEANED! @ couple hours labor. I also had a few other things fixed like loose, missing dowels for interior door panels & I can’t recall what else. Total $700, back in 1.5 days.
i was fine with that!
THANKS TO ALL who gave input. I HOPE this helps someone.