Compression test with a good working gauge is complete. I tested all cylinders, dry, car had not been run for about 8 hours, throttle body propped open, turned over car with fuel pump relay out. All cylinders tested 120-125. I suspect they would be higher if engine was warm. So, it appears that valves and engine are in good shape.
Now just have to let my wallet recharge for remaining primary tensioners, chains, guides, and seals. I am getting close to a great running engine soon.

 

Well...I finally got around to tearing apart the engine again to inspect primary timing chains, guides, tensioners. I have removed all timing parts, new parts have arrived and I am in the process of putting the car back together now. I have the full set of timing tools with the pair of cam lockdowns, cps lock, chain wedges, and harmonic balancer puller. The 1st generation primary tensioners had some cracks, and appeared to be locked into an open position (I could not retract the piston in the tensioner) and I wiggled the tensioner a little bit and they both popped out of their plastic housings. The chain guides were original, plastic looking, with grooves well into them from the chain being run over it millions of times. Chains will also be replaced, along with all seals that I got from Christopher's Foreign Auto. I am feeling more and more comfortable as I go through this process. The biggest obstacle was my own concern of not being able to put everything back together. I will also be installing a new water pump and thermostat while I have the front engine apart.

I just wish I had more time, I am only able to work on it an hour or two, here and there. I was traveling in Europe for a little while (including London) and I just recently started a new job, with about a 1hr 45min drive. I hope I can soon be able to drive the Jaguar for my commute. I will keep everyone updated, I hope by the first week in November that I can have the car buttoned up, and running again.
C.J.

 

I have finally installed all timing chains, guides, tensioners, seals, etc. and they have been installed according to JTIS specs, using proper timing chain tools, and torque specs. I primed the tensioners by starting the car with fuel pump relay removed. Then put the relay back in, and started the car. The moment of truth…I was worried that I might have missed something, as this was my most mechanical challenge to date, but I followed JTIS, including proper bolt tightening sequence. Car started, and for a few seconds was noisy, but this I attribute to the oil needing to go throughout the engine as the car has sat for a month. After those first few seconds, everything sounded normal. It was a bit shaky, but after a minute, for what I guess are the fuel trims to reset, the car now idles ok.
I let the car run at idle for 30 minutes, and lo, and behold, the same noise that was there when I started is still there, no worse, no better. It sounds like a tapping on the top end of the engine, noticeable at idle, and progressively gets worse when engine is warmed up, but then the noise seems to remain the same after that. The noise is variable with RPM, higher RPM=faster the noise. The noise is familiar sounding like bad lifters on another car (Dodge) that I had 10 years ago. I am at a loss, and would really like to be able to confidently drive this car daily. At least I am now more comfortable knowing that I have all new timing chains, guides, tensioners, and I am confident the install was done properly, as I took great care to follow procedures and member recommendations.
What's next? I'm at a loss here. Maybe still valves? I may have to bring it to the experts on this one, but not sure my wallet is ready for the pain. I did find a Jaguar specialist (V12 Motorsports) in Charlotte, NC (can't find any in my town) that offered to take a look at it, and may have it towed down there for diagnosis.
C.J.

 

Have you checked valve clearance?

 

That's where I lack the proper tools and know-how. I'm a nuts and bolts kind of DIY mechanic.

 

Here is a thread of similar discussion...could be useful.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...lenoids-26827/

 

Rod knock is the first thing I thought too when I heard the video. I had a Ford 5 liter motor where the oil pump failed - it was apparently worn and not pumping much and I didn't know it while on a long 4 hour highway trip and when I stopped, that's exactly what I was hearing at idle. Put it in gear and it sort of went away. Had no knock when engine was cold, but once warmed, it made the noise. I put in a high volume oil pump and 20/50 oil, took longer upon warm up before noise was heard due to thicker oil, but, engine was bad.

 

I finally had my car towed out to V-12 Motorsports, outside of Charlotte. Their initial inspection showed that driver side bank timing was out and throwing a code P1396 (VVT driver's side). The code was not present at first after I started up the car for the first few times, but decided to come on about the time the car was towed onto the rollback.

I guess my timing job, with proper tools, didn't do the trick. I can confirm that the lockdowns and crank peg were installed and appeared fine when I did the job, but it was my first time doing this type of work and may have exceeded my skills. I did not manually rotate the camshafts at all, so that may be the issue. So, they are inspecting timing and top-end components, including valve clearances, and condition, to diagnose the issue. They seem to be very knowledgeable with Jags. I'm hoping at best, it is timing that is off (the tensioners were all well past their useful lives, and I assume original chains were stretched too), or secondly, that the faulty tensioners caused a bent valve. The car still runs when I had it towed, so I am hopeful of its prognosis. I've heard rod knock in other cars, and I know it is a much louder and discernable noise. I will report back with the findings. I am not in a hurry to get the car back as I am in the process of moving to Charlotte in the coming weeks, but I will post an update when I know more.

 

I received the update this week from the repair shop. They specialize in Jaguars. They redid the timing job, including removal of front engine cover and top end, and they made sure that that everything was installed properly. Engine noise still exists, no change.

Diagnosis is that the bottom end suffered major damage, likely a damaged rod, which is echoing throughout the engine, making the diagnosis of the noise very hard to pinpoint. Surprisingly though, car still runs with an obvious loud engine noise that is not normal. The shop recommended that the bottom end would need replacement. This, I know, would require removal of engine. So, I am faced with a tough decision. I had planned on using the Jaguar as my daily driver for the immediate, and long-term future, mainly because the car is paid for, cheap to insure, and has a great look, but it looks like it might cost me more than I would like. The shop just had got everything put back together, and will check on prices for repair, either a complete engine swap, or bottom end swap, and will likely let me know next week.

I honestly enjoy the car and am wiling to invest some more into it, as much as it might pain me, but of course, the pain can only go so far before it hurts too bad. What type of $$ would you think I would be looking at for such a replacement of engine (direct swap) vs. swap of just a bottom end? If I can get a Jaguar bottom end for a reasonable price, it might help my cause. Does anyone know of a good source?

Moral support is also appreciated!!

 

Hi,
what a shame after the top end is good and all that work has been put in. Out of interest has a check on oil pressure been carried out?.
you will need some expert opinion on this, I suppose the question is how much a replacement engine would be over a replacement bottom end. would you carry out the work.

good luck

steveeasy

 

Yes, oil pressure had been an ongoing issue. At first start, car would show pressure at the middle of the gauge (I know its really a dumb gauge, pressure or no pressure). Around the time the engine noise became obvious, the oil pressure, after about 30 minutes of run-time, would consistently drop to red at idle only (particularly at stop lights). I changed oil with Jag oil filter several times, not much change in the condition. Car never showed low oil pressure while in motion. This is likely the greatest sign of engine failure, other than the obvious engine noise. After all tensioners, primary + secondary were replaced, along with chains, the oil pressure symptoms were slightly worse, and the oil pressure took a few extra seconds to get past the red warning light upon initial cold start.

I will not be doing any engine repairs from here on out, it would be entirely the work of the shop, whom I have heard/read many positive reviews about, having significant experience with Jaguars. So, I was told that I would likely need a replacement block, due to the presumed rod failure, and could likely salvage the remaining parts to swap over to the replacement (used) block. Or, I could hunt for a complete replacement assembly, and have the benefit of newer, lower mileage parts than my current engine components that have 160k miles on them. Any hints at costs that I might expect would be great, or recommendations on swapping just the block, or trying for a complete engine swap. I hope to know what the shop quotes in the next day or so.

 

CJ-

Unless your oil pressure is truly dropping into the red and setting off the "low oil pressure" alarm in your instrument cluster, I would not assume you have an oil pressure problem.

I installed WhiteXKRs oil pressure gauge system over the summer, which allows the existing oil pressure gauge to shows real-time pressure while the engine is turned on (unlike the stock system, which only shows that you have pressure or no pressure).

When the engine is cold and the oil is thick, pressure is highest. When the engine is working to move the car down the road, the pressure is mid-range to high. When the engine is hot and the car is stopped, the oil pressure is LOW. It's a normal thing, dictated more by viscosity and heat than anything else.

You may have an oil pressure problem - just know that higher pressures when cold or on the road - followed by lower pressure when hot and sitting at a stop light - are normal.

When I'm at a stoplight, my gauge sits just above the red zone. Doesn't drop into the red, no alarms, but it's right there.

 

Both the oil pressure gauge in the center dash drops and the red light comes on. My instrument cluster also indicates "Low Oil Pressure" and the red warning light on the dash comes on when at idle. This happens every single time after about 30 minutes of engine warming up. The oil pressure also is low for maybe 10-12 seconds when first started, and the low oil pressure light/indication on the cluster and dash gauge drop well into the red, but then come up to center and no red warning lights for about the first 20-30 minutes of idle, not driving. Knocking seems to come in a little at startup, goes away, and then is obvious at about 20 minutes. Not good..... :-(

 

Hi,
I think it would be beneficial to identify what is causing the drop in oil pressure at start up and after 30 mins.

It would be a good idear to get an exact oil pressure reading at start up and as oil heats up and becomes thinner.

If the pressure was lower than normal at each stage, then the reason for this could be ( a long shot) blockage in oil pick up. a 10 min job to remove sump and unbolt oil pick up clean all the debris and re install.

It could well be worth exploring this prior to deciding your next move, and the possibility exists that an improvement in oil pressure may improve the knock you say is evident for first 12 seconds and then after 30 mins.

Also if you need or decide to salvage anything from the engine you need to know the oil pressure and pump is operating correctly.

of course this may all have been done but worth a thought.

good luck

steveasy

 

Hi Again,
Apologies if im going over the same issue again. I am no expert in these matters but find the thread interesting and if I can offer some help id like to.

Wear on the crank is probably caused in this early case by low oil pressure resulting from either a faulty pump, blockage, or oil starvation.( or a number of other possibilities)

Is it therefore possible by rectifying the oil pressure issue that the knock could be reduced. My reasoning behind this, is that you say the knock is evident at start up for 10 seconds, and then goes away until the oil warms up( 30 mins).

I may be miles off in this case, but that is why I think a check should be made on the actual oil pressure. if it is low across the board, then this is what has caused the wear and correcting the oil pressure would perhaps give the engine some further use. After all, the knock is not continual, but only when pressure is low.

I understand it is a long shot, but worth considering.

best wishes

steveeasy

 

If you have low oil pressure the first thing to do is drop the oil pan and check for a clogged sump screen. They often clog with plastic bits from old tensioners and chain guides.

 

Thanks, Steve and WhiteXKR, for the suggestions. I actually had removed the oil pan, cleaned out the bits from the broken tensioners, reinstalled a new oil pickup tube, replaced oil pan, and seal, when I replaced the secondary tensioners a few months back, at the beginning of this repair journey, no change in the car's performance. I didn't get to check oil pressure with a gauge (more plug for the real gauge install...). Now that the car is at the shop, any item I would need to check would require additional labor cost, and since the car is 1.5 hours away from me, its hard to get out there and check on it myself. I just couldn't find any Jaguar shop (except the dealer) in my area, so that's why its far away. I think that whatever damage has happened is very serious, and not an easy repair.

 

I received word from the shop, V-12 Motorsports in Indian Trail, NC (near Charlotte), here is the situation described below, any thoughts, recommendations, suggestions, morale support, are much appreciated.
Because my car is a 98 XK8, it has the earlier AJ26 engine, limiting my engine options to 97-early 99 model years. My car currently has 160k miles on it.

-Replacement AJ26 Engine with heads, intake, with 88K miles. $1,800, 12mos/unlimited mile warranty
-Remove engine & reinstall replacement engine labor, $2,100, labor warranted for 12mos/12,000 miles. (If engine is bad, they would remove, and reinstall a replacement engine again for no charge).
-Since the timing components are all new in my current engine, they would also swap over all my new timing components to the replacement engine (remove timing cover while engines are both out), including many other new parts that I had recently replaced, including throttle body, plugs, water pump, accessories, hoses, and all accessories from my current engine to the replacement engine.
-Any new seals that would be needed, including rear main seal are included.
-All of the above are included in the labor rate.
-I can keep any leftover bits…heads, intake, any other leftover parts, and maybe resell to recoup some of the $$.
-Total is $3,900 out the door, running/driving car, with 12mos/12k miles warranty for labor, and 12 mos/unlimited miles warranty on parts.

I also found cheaper parts that would need to be shipped from out of state (prices include shipping), complete engines for around $1,400, 90 days warranty, with around 90K miles, or just an engine block for around $800, but labor would not be covered for an engine bought elsewhere, so if the engine was bad, I would need to ship it back to the vendor, and be stuck with the labor cost of removal. If just the engine block was purchased, existing heads would need to be machined, have new gaskets, and bolt set purchased.
Other points to consider…
1) I love my Jaguar.
2) The car is paid for.
3) I have spent a lot of money on repairs of my Jaguar in the last two years, most parts are new/replaced.
4) In about 3 months, I will definitely need some sort of reliable transportation to use as a daily driver.
5) I drove my Jaguar 7k miles in the past 2 years, mostly because it was undergoing some sort of repair, if it was not being repaired, I would probably drive 12-15k miles/year.

Thoughts??
Thank you,
C.J.

 

The car has little value as is, and if it is in good condition other than the engine, I would proceed. The labor might appear to be high, but since it includes swapping the chains, etc. not that bad.
What about the transmission? This would be a good time to upgrade the a-drum, maybe the valves if not done previously.

 

Hi
I dont like paying for anything, but the price for labour is reasonable given the work involved. I think all in its a good deal. totally agree to do the transmission at same time.
The cost was always going to be high, take in to account the value of the original engine that you can sell as it is, or have repaired and it looks even better.

If I was in your neighbourhood id have your used engine as a project.bit too far though. lets hope the garage can deliver.

Good luck

Steveeasy