Yep - Yet another Failsafe Mode Issue
#81
#82
Try printing out individual pages instead of the whole thing.
Or take the pdf file on a usb stick to a Kinko's or some other quick print place.
#84
#86
Whats been done & current status
Steve,
Refresh us a little. What is the current status of: [new, old, substituted, clean, secure etc.]
Throttle Body
Relays in the RH enclosure by the ECM & TCM
Relays in the LH Eng Compartment fuse/relay box
All the power studs and pass-thru studs circled in the attached page
Been a long thread and need to clarify a few things.
Cheers,
Refresh us a little. What is the current status of: [new, old, substituted, clean, secure etc.]
Throttle Body
Relays in the RH enclosure by the ECM & TCM
Relays in the LH Eng Compartment fuse/relay box
All the power studs and pass-thru studs circled in the attached page
Been a long thread and need to clarify a few things.
Cheers,
1. Cooling system - replaced all hoses, thermostat and housing, steam cleaned radiator, flushed and refilled with orange coolant mix. (Flush and fill performed twice. Replaced T-stat twice)
2. Replaced throttle body with OEM new (with little sticker of eye looking at bulletin that's shown within the T-body bulletin)
3. Replaced spark plugs. Performed leak-down compression test. Cleaned wheel brake sensors.
4. Cleaned MAF, checked all accessible electrical plugs under hood and all relays everywhere (both sides under hood and in boot), access ECM and check seating of all relays & elec plugs, used dilectric grease on all female plug ends, swapped positions of all like relays, replaced air filter. reset ECM by disconnecting negative terminal and touching 3 times.
5. Check temperatures at various locations under hood, all appear to be within normal range. Have tech verify temps with actual temp guage to verify earlier findings. The car is not actually overheating.
6. Troubleshoot charging system, battery good, alternater good, no drain on battery.
7. Performed smoke test of vacuum system, identified 2 leaks. Replaced PCV tube and intake manifold gaskets. (The reason for the TDC codes of Fuel Mix too lean)
The car is running better, but still not right. Idle is midly rough after warm-up and throttle response and performance are still below par. The car runs very well when first started up in the morning, but performance degrades as it reaches "normal" operating temperature.
Failsafe continues to occur intermittently and for no appearent reason. When it occurs, the car will not restart until the engine has cooled down to barely warm to the touch. Then it starts and runs fine - until it warms up again.
NEXT: Print out the electrical information members have provided and perform troubleshooting. (Unless the above gives someone a better idea as to what's wrong with this car.)
A sincere Thank you to you all for all of your help. I appreciate it.
#87
Maybe nothing
This morning on the way to work, I noticed the LED light on the cruise control button was on, but the button was still depressed to the off position.
This has happened twice now. If I depress it to pop it up into the "on" position and then back to "off", it goes out.
I have no idea if this has any bearing on anything or if it's even abnormal. Just clutching at straws and thought I'd mention it in the event it does have some meaning - like maybe an electrical short or something.
Thanks
This has happened twice now. If I depress it to pop it up into the "on" position and then back to "off", it goes out.
I have no idea if this has any bearing on anything or if it's even abnormal. Just clutching at straws and thought I'd mention it in the event it does have some meaning - like maybe an electrical short or something.
Thanks
#88
#89
I am not sure what you got going on but my guess is that you have a problem with the Throttle Body or the TB connections. You are not getting a code but you go into FailSafe Mode and the car will not start. You had said you replaced the TB and you still have the same problems but if it is not the TB then the plugs. If the TB were out of range / performance it will inhibit the speed control, cruise control, traction control / stability control and limits power limiting. The 1999 – 2001 has a TSB 303-58 that suggests that a compatibility issue exists with the TB plugs, I feel you have a same issue. I say same because the 1998 MY car is not listed under the TSB but the symptoms are the same. I could be wrong but if it were me I would pull the plug and comply with the TSB 303-58 as if it fell into that MY. This is a link to the information I have on it TBoddyPlug I hope it works!
#91
Will check the plugs again
I am not sure what you got going on but my guess is that you have a problem with the Throttle Body or the TB connections. You are not getting a code but you go into FailSafe Mode and the car will not start. You had said you replaced the TB and you still have the same problems but if it is not the TB then the plugs. If the TB were out of range / performance it will inhibit the speed control, cruise control, traction control / stability control and limits power limiting. The 1999 – 2001 has a TSB 303-58 that suggests that a compatibility issue exists with the TB plugs, I feel you have a same issue. I say same because the 1998 MY car is not listed under the TSB but the symptoms are the same. I could be wrong but if it were me I would pull the plug and comply with the TSB 303-58 as if it fell into that MY. This is a link to the information I have on it TBoddyPlug I hope it works!
I found your link in another thread and checked those same plugs (along with the "T" vacuum line fitting below the Throttle body) when I checked all the other plugs. My plug stays are still good and the pins appear ok. I put a dab of dilectric grease on the female side and plugged everything back up.
But I'll check them again over the weekend.
Thanks,
#92
#93
coolant temperature...did you say you were monitoring it, via a scanner to compare with the gauge? My gauge always goes just above midway before settling down, normal coolant temp via the torque app on my phone and OBDII bluetooth adapter is between 180-190 at idle, getting up to 200-210 while driving. How does yours compare.
#94
coolant temperature...did you say you were monitoring it, via a scanner to compare with the gauge? My gauge always goes just above midway before settling down, normal coolant temp via the torque app on my phone and OBDII bluetooth adapter is between 180-190 at idle, getting up to 200-210 while driving. How does yours compare.
I have been thinking about the temperature thing. What I do not know what could trip to prevent the car from starting. I was thinking about the cooling fan thermal switches but have not pulled the prints to see if they could be part of the problem.
#95
coolant temperature...did you say you were monitoring it, via a scanner to compare with the gauge? My gauge always goes just above midway before settling down, normal coolant temp via the torque app on my phone and OBDII bluetooth adapter is between 180-190 at idle, getting up to 200-210 while driving. How does yours compare.
And a new and unusual development regarding this in a new post in a minute.
Thanks,
#96
A new and bizarre development
You guys are all going to be convinced that I'm either jerking everyone's chain or a loon - or both.
This morning I drained the cooling system, disconnected the top hose, poured in a container of Zerex flush, filled the system as much as I could through the upper hose, buttoned it all back up and then started it and let it run for 30 min with the cap off. Every time a few bubbles appeared in the reservoir and the level dropped, I refilled it.
Then I put the cap on and let it just sit there and idle for about an hour, with blipping the throttle every 10 min or so. Then I followed the directions - drive for 3 to 6 hours. So I drove around for 4 hours. Some highway, mostly stop & go intercity. I also ran the heater during the drive.
Now here's whats bizarre - within the first hour of the drive - the car is idling so smooth I was looking at the tach at every stoplight to make sure it was running. Power and throttle response were back to pre-problem levels. It was like magic - and that's the only thing I've done.
The only other notable change is that now the temp gauge needle is it's own width below the middle mark on the gauge - and it's never been there before. Always right on the middle mark or it's own width above it. I don't have any means of checking the actual temp since it's Saturday. But I will next week.
As those of you that have been following this thread already know, I've paid to have the cooling system steam cleaned once and flushed twice. Neither time was I actually there to watch it being done. This time I did it myself. And low and behold there's a huge difference in the way the car runs.
I cannot explain this and about the only logical reason I can come up with is pure conjecture. But is it possible that some sensor somewhere in the cooling system was contaminated or maybe had some corrosion build-up on it or something - and a real good flush of the system cleaned it and allowed it to work properly?
Of course the verdict is still out on whether this has any effect on the Failsafe issue, but the car is at least running good, maybe even better than when I first bought it.
Your thoughts on this very unusual result will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
This morning I drained the cooling system, disconnected the top hose, poured in a container of Zerex flush, filled the system as much as I could through the upper hose, buttoned it all back up and then started it and let it run for 30 min with the cap off. Every time a few bubbles appeared in the reservoir and the level dropped, I refilled it.
Then I put the cap on and let it just sit there and idle for about an hour, with blipping the throttle every 10 min or so. Then I followed the directions - drive for 3 to 6 hours. So I drove around for 4 hours. Some highway, mostly stop & go intercity. I also ran the heater during the drive.
Now here's whats bizarre - within the first hour of the drive - the car is idling so smooth I was looking at the tach at every stoplight to make sure it was running. Power and throttle response were back to pre-problem levels. It was like magic - and that's the only thing I've done.
The only other notable change is that now the temp gauge needle is it's own width below the middle mark on the gauge - and it's never been there before. Always right on the middle mark or it's own width above it. I don't have any means of checking the actual temp since it's Saturday. But I will next week.
As those of you that have been following this thread already know, I've paid to have the cooling system steam cleaned once and flushed twice. Neither time was I actually there to watch it being done. This time I did it myself. And low and behold there's a huge difference in the way the car runs.
I cannot explain this and about the only logical reason I can come up with is pure conjecture. But is it possible that some sensor somewhere in the cooling system was contaminated or maybe had some corrosion build-up on it or something - and a real good flush of the system cleaned it and allowed it to work properly?
Of course the verdict is still out on whether this has any effect on the Failsafe issue, but the car is at least running good, maybe even better than when I first bought it.
Your thoughts on this very unusual result will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
Last edited by OldFart; 08-13-2011 at 03:43 PM.
#99
I'm gonna throw my arms up on this one then...
I always feel better when I can do the repairs myself, because I can always playback in my head what I did, looking for my mistakes if it isn't corrected.
Give it some more time, lets see how it is doing in a week or two of some daily driving.
I always feel better when I can do the repairs myself, because I can always playback in my head what I did, looking for my mistakes if it isn't corrected.
Give it some more time, lets see how it is doing in a week or two of some daily driving.
#100
This might turn into a palm:face moment.